Star Trek: Discovery is on CBS' (On Demand Streaming Service)

Bobobie

Registered User
That was his decision? What was his reason for doing such a drastic change?
He wanted everything to be bigger and better and in the case of the Klingons, scarier. He either didn't understand or didn't care that they had to be humanoid enough to fuck, seeing that there are Half Human and Klingon in the TNG versions. His interference is the reason Bryan Fuller was fired. Once he was gone it was nothing but "Yes, Mr. Moonves, whatever you say Mr. Moonves." In the Second Season they are bringing back hair, so it seems that they are starting to listen to fans.
 

Saikotic

Scraping a dull blade across your tender eyeball
Donator
The reason for the changes are all about copyrights. In the video above it's stated that the Enterprise as depicted in Discovery has to be 40% different than the one in TOS.
 

Radioguy

Having it my way since '98
The reason for the changes are all about copyrights. In the video above it's stated that the Enterprise as depicted in Discovery has to be 40% different than the one in TOS.
Correct. @DR. Jimcy M.E.

However, it's also been said that the new Klingon's were Fuller's idea. That always struck me as odd as he worked on DS9 and VOY and would, seemingly, stick to canon and expand upon it.
 

LiddyRules

The 9/11 Moon Landings Were An Outside Job
Correct. @DR. Jimcy M.E.

However, it's also been said that the new Klingon's were Fuller's idea. That always struck me as odd as he worked on DS9 and VOY and would, seemingly, stick to canon and expand upon it.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, we know that Klingons do genetic manipulation per Enterprise (explaining why no ridges in TOS), so maybe they were genetically manipulating themselves to prepare themselves for the coming war. But, again, that's something that makes far more sense in a sequel setting.
 

Bobobie

Registered User
Correct. @DR. Jimcy M.E.

However, it's also been said that the new Klingon's were Fuller's idea. That always struck me as odd as he worked on DS9 and VOY and would, seemingly, stick to canon and expand upon it.
His version was similar to the Abrams-verse Klingons, not what they evolved to after Moonves's interference.
 

LiddyRules

The 9/11 Moon Landings Were An Outside Job
That's what I thought as well.
You'd know better than I would, but did they ever do much with the Romulan/Klingon alliance? Because one way I saw the relationship was the Romulans as being able to out think the Federation and the Klingons as being able to out fight the Federation, but the Federation was better at both of them because they had the mix, which is how they were able to win more often.

I think the most fearsome the Klingons ever were were in TOS where they were most like savage marauders who'd come to a planet, take all its resources, and presumably kill and **** at will. By the time of TNG they were more buffoonish and living on past glories. So pre-TOS would be a great time to do something with a Romulan/Klingon team-up. Especially because according to this,

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Romulan-Klingon_relations

they did have a short-lived alliance around the time of TOS. But instead we get the Mirror Universe?
 

Saikotic

Scraping a dull blade across your tender eyeball
Donator
Hey, at least in season 2, the Klingons magically have hair again.

Ohhhhhh they shave their hair in times of war? Which NEVER happened again? Huh.
 

DR. Jimcy M.E.

I bring love and cheer.
You'd know better than I would, but did they ever do much with the Romulan/Klingon alliance?
Beyond those stupid episodes with the half-romulan half-human Tasha Yarrrrrrrrr! Not to my knowledge.

On the point of TNG Klingons being buffoons. I completely agree with that sentiment, which, once again, is why I love DS9. They have the Klingons declare War on the Cardassians, and they even fight the Federation and attack DS9. I believe there's a pretty grim episode where Dr. Bashir has to help wounded colonists escape from Klingon raiders. During the episode, the colonists talk about how Klingons put away their ranged weapons even when they don't need to because they prefer the brutality of up close fighting, which scares the living fuck out of everyone.
 

LiddyRules

The 9/11 Moon Landings Were An Outside Job
Beyond those stupid episodes with the half-romulan half-human Tasha Yarrrrrrrrr! Not to my knowledge.

On the point of TNG Klingons being buffoons. I completely agree with that sentiment, which, once again, is why I love DS9. They have the Klingons declare War on the Cardassians, and they even fight the Federation and attack DS9. I believe there's a pretty grim episode where Dr. Bashir has to help wounded colonists escape from Klingon raiders. During the episode, the colonists talk about how Klingons put away their ranged weapons even when they don't need to because they prefer the brutality of up close fighting, which scares the living fuck out of everyone.
I agree. The Klingons and the Vulcans might be the most misunderstood races in Trek. The Klingons are considered cool because they're loud and boisterous, but they're kind of ponces. All the stuff about who rules what House is sheer pageantry.

People consider the Vulcans boring, but they're actually really interesting in how they combine cold logic with fairly intense spiritualism.
 

Bobobie

Registered User
It sounds like the new series is doomed as well. The writing staff is a huge problem for the new P. Stuart ST series. The person in charge of teaching "Star Trek Canon" only has experience writing for the Season one of Discovery and little else. The hiring of the staff based on background and experience is also questioned. For some reason, they seem to be avoiding the hiring of any actual fans of the show.

 

LiddyRules

The 9/11 Moon Landings Were An Outside Job
Wait, did anyone think this was going to be anything but a disaster?
Everything Trek will be a disaster until CBS All Access realizes that no non-Trek fan is going to get their shitty service and starts writing for Trek fans. If this was on the Paramount Network between back to back Bar Rescues sure. Try to bring more people in. But once you include a pay wall, you've limited yourself tremendously. I didn't even friggin pay for it. (Though thinking back, I have fonder memories of Discovery than I would have expected.)

Meanwhile the film franchise is Deader than Checkov.

At least it's not Doctor Who.
 

LiddyRules

The 9/11 Moon Landings Were An Outside Job
There are easier ways to make me crawl out of my hole than taunts.

Anyhow, none of this is good. It's depressing.
Depressing is a strong word. I think Star Trek still has potential if you accept what Star Trek is has changed. And not in an "OMG Agenda, how dare Star Trek be political" way, but in a way that skews closer to the Abramsverse. Because Discovery isn't really overly political or politically correct, unless you need it to be because you're the type of person who needs it to be.

Doctor Who on the other hand...I'll get into that a bit later.
 

JoeyDVDZ

Well-Known Member
Donator
Doctor Who has run completely off the tracks. And not just because woman Doctor; I'd gotten over my initial "Goddam SJW's and their having to fuck with everything" phase, and was ready for a new twist in the DW world.

But every goddamn episode this season has been some sort of virtue signaling, SJW, men are evil shitheaps story. And three companions is throwing me a little bit as well. Too many voices in the choir.

Meh. What do I know, my favorite Doctors were Tom Baker and David Tennant anyway.
 

Saikotic

Scraping a dull blade across your tender eyeball
Donator
Doctor Who has run completely off the tracks. And not just because woman Doctor; I'd gotten over my initial "Goddam SJW's and their having to fuck with everything" phase, and was ready for a new twist in the DW world.

But every goddamn episode this season has been some sort of virtue signaling, SJW, men are evil shitheaps story. And three companions is throwing me a little bit as well. Too many voices in the choir.

Meh. What do I know, my favorite Doctors were Tom Baker and David Tennant anyway.
The showrunner and main writer, Chris Chibnall, was the writer behind some of the absolute worst episodes of the previous seasons. No wonder he wants to quit now. It's just too hard for the hack.

CBS doesn't care about Star Trek enough to make a good enough Trek series. I hope the guy suing over the tardigrade wins.
 

JoeyDVDZ

Well-Known Member
Donator
The showrunner and main writer, Chris Chibnall, was the writer behind some of the absolute worst episodes of the previous seasons. No wonder he wants to quit now. It's just too hard for the hack.

CBS doesn't care about Star Trek enough to make a good enough Trek series. I hope the guy suing over the tardigrade wins.
Agreed. How the fuck they decided he'd be a good show runner, is beyond me. He sucks so fucking bad.
 

LiddyRules

The 9/11 Moon Landings Were An Outside Job
To be completely honest, I haven't watched any of the new Doctor Who. I like letting shows build up on my DVR and then watching unless it's something I adore like Better Call Saul. Then I saw that Doctor Who had a Rosa Parks episode and somehow my DVR deleted all the previous episodes. And just that show. Strange, huh?

You're not Quantum Leap. You're about a goofball who fights decommissioned vacuum cleaner parts. That's not saying the show can't evolve or be more "adult," but at its heart - it's a goofball who fights decommissioned vacuum cleaner parts.

And that was my point when the Lady Doctor was originally announced. A Lady can be that. We've seen plenty of lady actors on the show who could capture that spirit - Missy, River, even Donna Noble. They all showed at various points that spark of fun and whimsy. And I think if they retained that joie de vivre. a Lady Doctor could have lead to some more interesting stories and relationships than another pasty white guy. I'm generally willing to give things the benefit of the doubt. The rationale might be cynical or "political," but if the execution works, does the rationale matter so much anymore?

So out of curiosity the past couple of days I've been reading about the new Doctor Who (not on this board, I haven't stepped into that thread) and the first headline I saw was something like "a story only the 13th Doctor can tell" and that was when I knew all I really needed to know. But continuing out of curiosity, I've actually read and watched quite a bit on how this season is going. And even the good reviews are groan inducing; they're self congratulatory about how self congratulatory the show is. And some of the negative reviews I don't like. The Nerdtronic guy I find a bit off-putting, but I don't mind this chick.


And yes, it was everything you guys feared. Rants about patriarchy, Trump, racism, etc. with seemingly little else. I admit it. You guys were right. I was wrong. (But I still maintain I was right in principle, which makes me even righter than you guys. So I win.)

It's not like the Doctor never had values or morals, but it was more 'humanist' in a universal sense. The Doctor encouraged understanding and compassion and fought against oppression and prejudice but in a more general way. The Doctor wanted to build a better future, not rail against a problematic past. And from what I've read, it seems like that's all it is now. Between the falling ratings of Capaldi (who only saved his seasons because he's a great actor, and even now I'm not 100% certain whether I finished his seasons or not) and what's going on with the current season and the showrunner/actor's desire to leave, and I don't know how much it costs the BBC, but I wouldn't be surprised if next season is the end. Where else can it go? It left the zeitgeist probably midway through Smith's run. Besides, Eccleston started in 2005. 15 years is not a bad run by any stretch.
 

Radioguy

Having it my way since '98
To be completely honest, I haven't watched any of the new Doctor Who. I like letting shows build up on my DVR and then watching unless it's something I adore like Better Call Saul. Then I saw that Doctor Who had a Rosa Parks episode and somehow my DVR deleted all the previous episodes. And just that show. Strange, huh?

You're not Quantum Leap. You're about a goofball who fights decommissioned vacuum cleaner parts. That's not saying the show can't evolve or be more "adult," but at its heart - it's a goofball who fights decommissioned vacuum cleaner parts.

And that was my point when the Lady Doctor was originally announced. A Lady can be that. We've seen plenty of lady actors on the show who could capture that spirit - Missy, River, even Donna Noble. They all showed at various points that spark of fun and whimsy. And I think if they retained that joie de vivre. a Lady Doctor could have lead to some more interesting stories and relationships than another pasty white guy. I'm generally willing to give things the benefit of the doubt. The rationale might be cynical or "political," but if the execution works, does the rationale matter so much anymore?

So out of curiosity the past couple of days I've been reading about the new Doctor Who (not on this board, I haven't stepped into that thread) and the first headline I saw was something like "a story only the 13th Doctor can tell" and that was when I knew all I really needed to know. But continuing out of curiosity, I've actually read and watched quite a bit on how this season is going. And even the good reviews are groan inducing; they're self congratulatory about how self congratulatory the show is. And some of the negative reviews I don't like. The Nerdtronic guy I find a bit off-putting, but I don't mind this chick.


And yes, it was everything you guys feared. Rants about patriarchy, Trump, racism, etc. with seemingly little else. I admit it. You guys were right. I was wrong. (But I still maintain I was right in principle, which makes me even righter than you guys. So I win.)

It's not like the Doctor never had values or morals, but it was more 'humanist' in a universal sense. The Doctor encouraged understanding and compassion and fought against oppression and prejudice but in a more general way. The Doctor wanted to build a better future, not rail against a problematic past. And from what I've read, it seems like that's all it is now. Between the falling ratings of Capaldi (who only saved his seasons because he's a great actor, and even now I'm not 100% certain whether I finished his seasons or not) and what's going on with the current season and the showrunner/actor's desire to leave, and I don't know how much it costs the BBC, but I wouldn't be surprised if next season is the end. Where else can it go? It left the zeitgeist probably midway through Smith's run. Besides, Eccleston started in 2005. 15 years is not a bad run by any stretch.
You're wrong. To begin with, to formulate such a verbose opinion without even watching the show. I'd have put myself through it for many reasons no matter how bad the reviews might have been. Also, while your wont is to binge, if you love a show - and I mean to fanaticism - you'll watch it as soon as possible. There are few programs I scheduled things around when I was a kid, but this was one, and I never broke from that. If you like, it feels right just to contribute to the ratings if not anything else.

You're spectacularly wrong when it comes to historicals. This show was built on that. In fact, it's something that would have influenced Quantum Leap t o be historical, if anything. Oh, it veered away from that being its core long ago, but it's part of the pedigree. That they "could always do a historical" was something the producers and fans took for granted. Like using a phone to make a call...I mean it can do that, but "so much more". So, there's no need to evolve from something that was its heart to being with.

Here on out though...you're right. Not spectacularly right, but painfully so. While the progressive stances expressed in the program might have justifiable reasons from a modern societal standpoint, it's now obvious it's more tactic than anything else. I think even those who skew far to the left have seen that by now.

The idea to "rest" DW came to me by the second episode, and it literally depressed me. I brushed it aside as just another of the uncertainties I always feel when they find their footing with a new Dr., but I don't think I ever, not since 2005, felt it ought to go off air again. It still hurts to even think about.

As I think I've said in the DW thread, I've long been a proponent, as crazy as it sounds, that bad DW on TV is better that NO DW on TV. I lived through the post-1989 years where John Nathan-Turner was as vilified as Chibnall is now, but he had kept the show on the air. It wasn't as good as it could have or should have been, but it was ON.

It was when it was cancelled that many regretted putting nails into the coffin when it was on, as getting it back was far more difficult that anyone expected. Despite the budget, in the world of sci-fi, DW is quite literally one of the top franchises in the entire world (arguably the third, but whatever), and it's insane to think of the mindset of some to not license it long before - even Spielberg had been interested. No, I've become one of those that felt you fix it as it goes, as the alternative of hiatus is too risky.

Now, though...I have pause to wonder. The 2005 run up to now has only solidified the position of DW as a leading franchise (which makes no feature film as of yet incomprehensible), and I have to think a hiatus need not be a decade, but again, the risk is too great to bear. Plus, I still think a 180° is achievable; even with the current cast. It's just not going to go down well with what embrace it's felt from some on the left, but like resetting a bone, you can't put it off, and the sooner the better.

Still, if nothing else, my position is valid because I've watched the damned thing.
 
I'll say it...I don't get Doctor Who (and I don't get why we're discussing Doctor Who in a Star Trek thead but that aside). I've tried, I've really tried. I forced myself (Clockwork Orange style) to sit through all of Matt Smith and some David Tennant episodes. And it's just dull, dumb and boring. I seriously feel like I'm missing out because of the excitement my friends have for this show. But it's not for me. And now that they've gone full blown SJW, I see no reason to hide my disdain anymore.
 
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