Movie Star Wars: Episode 9 - We're Sorry, We're So So Sorry - December 20, 2019, dir. JJ Abrams

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#1
I realized we don't have a thread for Episode 9.

Anyway, we were discussing this in the HitW thread, but probably better if we keep it in a thread that won't fall by the wayside in a month.

Keri Russell of Felicity and The Americans is cast in Star Wars, Episode 9 in, you guessed it, some mysterious role that we'll ponder about for over a year only for it to be a pointless thirty second cameo.

So let's ponder what her pointless thirty second cameo will be. (Though I will say it's nice to see Star Wars branching out with their casting of female characters with the hiring of a pale white brunette.) My initial thought is that she will be Rey's mother possibly in a flashback sequence (though she might show up later). I think they will try to split the difference between Rey being 'chosen' and Rey being a nobody. She will be the daughter of two Forcers (Russell and someone else whom we never heard of before or maybe they're in stupid books) who have been hiding out pretending to be drunk junk merchants to allay suspicion, but Snoke detects Rey's powers and wants her for his own. That's why they send her off. She's chosen (Jedi --> Jedi) but also a nobody (not legacy Jedi).

That or she's Luke's illegitimate daughter, but I don't think that will happen, nor will I think that would fly with the audience.

The strange thing about episode 9 is it feels like there's a lot still open yet it also feels like none of it is particularly relevant.

Now commence your hissy fits about SJWs.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#2
I realized we don't have a thread for Episode 9.

Anyway, we were discussing this in the HitW thread, but probably better if we keep it in a thread that won't fall by the wayside in a month.

Keri Russell of Felicity and The Americans is cast in Star Wars, Episode 9 in, you guessed it, some mysterious role that we'll ponder about for over a year only for it to be a pointless thirty second cameo.

So let's ponder what her pointless thirty second cameo will be. (Though I will say it's nice to see Star Wars branching out with their casting of female characters with the hiring of a pale white brunette.) My initial thought is that she will be Rey's mother possibly in a flashback sequence (though she might show up later). I think they will try to split the difference between Rey being 'chosen' and Rey being a nobody. She will be the daughter of two Forcers (Russell and someone else whom we never heard of before or maybe they're in stupid books) who have been hiding out pretending to be drunk junk merchants to allay suspicion, but Snoke detects Rey's powers and wants her for his own. That's why they send her off. She's chosen (Jedi --> Jedi) but also a nobody (not legacy Jedi).

That or she's Luke's illegitimate daughter, but I don't think that will happen, nor will I think that would fly with the audience.

The strange thing about episode 9 is it feels like there's a lot still open yet it also feels like none of it is particularly relevant.

Now commence your hissy fits about SJWs.
At least she’s not British!
 

HandPanzer

O Tempora O Mores!
May 30, 2013
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#4
Keri Russell might be the sexiest woman in Star Wars now.
 

Discoman

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Feb 21, 2010
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#6
I'm sure whatever happens it will be as unsatisfactory as the preceding two films.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
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#7
I think they will try to split the difference between Rey being 'chosen' and Rey being a nobody. She will be the daughter of two Forcers (Russell and someone else whom we never heard of before or maybe they're in stupid books) who have been hiding out pretending to be drunk junk merchants to allay suspicion, but Snoke detects Rey's powers and wants her for his own. That's why they send her off. She's chosen (Jedi --> Jedi) but also a nobody (not legacy Jedi).
I'd accept that.

I mean, I would have preferred that she remains a complete nobody, but everything around that plotpoint was such garbage that there is no reason to remain attached to it.

If that's what they need to do to help get this thing on course, that's a solid compromise.
 

Floyd1977

Registered User
Nov 1, 2004
12,915
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#8
Keri Russell might be the sexiest woman in Star Wars now.
Yeah. While there’s nothing really wrong with Ridley in the looks departments, she doesn’t even exude a mere glisten of sexiness. She’s like the Rory Gilmore of the SW universe.
 

MayrMeninoCrash

Liberal Psycopath
Dec 9, 2004
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#9
She'll be the star of a 45 minute flashback in which we finally learn where broom boy got his broom
 

Voodoo Ben

You gotta wash your ass
Dec 5, 2010
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#10
Star Wars fans won't see this movie.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#11
I wish I could find one person who could explain to me why they wanted Rey to be a nobody and why it’s good she’s a nobody.

I can’t fathom why that could possibly be considered a good or sensible thing in this story - In a Star Wars story unrelated to the Skywalkers? Sure, who cares who she is? Jyn Erso didn’t need to be a Skywalker. But in the continuing story of the Skywalkers...there is no logical sense in it. I mean literally none whatsoever.

Do these people hate that Luke and Vader were related? To me that one thing is what gave the original trilogy all of its meaning. So for this entire trilogy to be about a girl with no connection to anything interacting with all these people who are connected. I mean...someone explain it to me. How does it make sense? At the end of TLJ when Luke dies and it cuts to Rey and then to Leia and they both feel him dying. Like...huh? His sister and some random girl he met yesterday? This makes sense to people?

I don’t know why I’m asking here. It’s been 3 years and nobody has offered anything other than nonsense like “I love everything about Star Wars except the Skywalkers.” Which, I mean - I can’t...

But if anyone wants to have a go at it...
 
Jun 30, 2005
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#12
I have it on good authority that she will be an agent of the empire who pretends to be a member of the rebellion. She's raised in a small camp within the empire that is made to look like the planet Alderaan. She learns to speak like members of the rebellion learns all their customs and how to behave like them. She will have a husband who also pretends to be a member of the rebellion. They together will work from within the rebellion to sabotage it carry out and nefarious plots and executions of members of the rebellion until one day they are revealed to be spies for the empire and flee to canada.
 

Guilty Spark

It's freeing and refreshing
May 4, 2005
6,375
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#15
I’m looking forward to the subplot of a rebel Bith with Downs Syndrome and a wise cracking gay black droid teaming up to find Kit Fisto’s long lost toothbrush, a talisman that can truly defeat the bumbling First Order.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#16
@Pigdango

I know we are at odds on this. I know that we're not going see eye to eye. But you put out a challenge and I shall half-heartedly try to explain where I'm coming from. (I won't go into everything, but I will hit a couple of main points for me.)

A big issue for me is the execution of the lineage and the mystery box nature. In ANH, it didn't matter who Luke's parents were. We had an off hand refereence about his father, and that was it. He didn't spend the movie going like, "I wonder who my parents are" and the movie didn't go "Hey, I bet you're wondering who his parents are." By pretty much dropping it in ANH, it allowed Luke to stand on his own as his own character because he wasn't his father's son then. So when Darth Vader is revealed as his father, it's more of a surprise because his actual lineage wasn't built up as a big deal. And it wasn't at the forefront of your mind in the way that this series made Rey's parents.

The new movies keep hanging a neon sign of "WHO IS REY'S PARENTS?!?!?" to where it overwhelms the movie. And because odds are it's a Legacy character, we know she's either a Leia/Han or a Luke/?. If you want to take a leap, she could be Obi-Wan's granddaughter or some Anakin/Palpatina/ForceCrapWhatever. Because the options are so limited, and it's so obvious it's going to be one of them, the movie playing coy with it makes you want to reject Legacy because you're annoyed that they're playing with us poorly. Not to mention how we would be required to do mental gymnastics to get Rey to where she is at the beginning of TFA and then all the Legacy characters having to unnecessarily play dumb just because Abrams has a hard on for mystery boxes. That all the main characters are dead now further hurts any Legacy reveal.

And while I get the entire "it's like poetry, it rhymes" theme motif, does it matter? Luke being Darth Vader's son was a shock because it was unexpected and it added to his character. Does Rey being a Solo or a Skywalker add anything to her outside of "Oh, okay, kind of what we all thought. Great." Would it change her relationship to anyone? I don't think her knowing about being Kylo Ren's sister would make her react any differently to him than she did when Facetiming on The Island.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#17
@Pigdango

I know we are at odds on this. I know that we're not going see eye to eye. But you put out a challenge and I shall half-heartedly try to explain where I'm coming from. (I won't go into everything, but I will hit a couple of main points for me.)

A big issue for me is the execution of the lineage and the mystery box nature. In ANH, it didn't matter who Luke's parents were. We had an off hand refereence about his father, and that was it. He didn't spend the movie going like, "I wonder who my parents are" and the movie didn't go "Hey, I bet you're wondering who his parents are." By pretty much dropping it in ANH, it allowed Luke to stand on his own as his own character because he wasn't his father's son then. So when Darth Vader is revealed as his father, it's more of a surprise because his actual lineage wasn't built up as a big deal. And it wasn't at the forefront of your mind in the way that this series made Rey's parents.

The new movies keep hanging a neon sign of "WHO IS REY'S PARENTS?!?!?" to where it overwhelms the movie. And because odds are it's a Legacy character, we know she's either a Leia/Han or a Luke/?. If you want to take a leap, she could be Obi-Wan's granddaughter or some Anakin/Palpatina/ForceCrapWhatever. Because the options are so limited, and it's so obvious it's going to be one of them, the movie playing coy with it makes you want to reject Legacy because you're annoyed that they're playing with us poorly. Not to mention how we would be required to do mental gymnastics to get Rey to where she is at the beginning of TFA and then all the Legacy characters having to unnecessarily play dumb just because Abrams has a hard on for mystery boxes. That all the main characters are dead now further hurts any Legacy reveal.

And while I get the entire "it's like poetry, it rhymes" theme motif, does it matter? Luke being Darth Vader's son was a shock because it was unexpected and it added to his character. Does Rey being a Solo or a Skywalker add anything to her outside of "Oh, okay, kind of what we all thought. Great." Would it change her relationship to anyone? I don't think her knowing about being Kylo Ren's sister would make her react any differently to him than she did when Facetiming on The Island.
I actually agree with a lot of what you’ve said, and I believe I’ve said some of the same things on numerous occasions regarding the execution of this mystery box in comparison to the OT’s.

I’ve said that the intent of Johnson’s reveal was to unify the audience by taking all of their theories and pooping on them. By making everyone wrong, it theoretically gives a clean slate for Episode 9 to do something with Rey’s character that nobody expects. The mystery box is still closed and it’s contents still secret. That can work.

But if she’s nobody, the story simply doesn’t work. She has known these people for a couple of days. Revealing that she has no connection to them might work for the audience and the subversion of THEIR expectations but it doesn’t work for her or the story. With no connection between them other than “they know the force”, it doesn’t provide enough reason for Rey to care so much about people she simply doesn’t know. Finn’s motivation for joining the Resistance are clear. He doesn’t need to be anyone’s son or daughter. Rey’s are not. She’s...BB8’s friend? That’s pretty much all TFA gave us, and it’s not enough.

Stories work best when they serve the characters, not the audience. It’s a simple concept, but one deeply misunderstood by most people. Meta moments in films can work, subverting audience expectations can work, but that brings it back to your point on the execution.

Rey’s parents being nobody works only as a subversion of the audience’s expectations, not of Rey’s.

Walk through the story of both movies with Rey as a nobody.

Rey meets BB8. She forms a bond with him because he’s adorbs, but has no intention of leaving Jakku. She wants to turn right around after they initially escape. But then they find Han and have to escape again, but again she says she wants to go back to Jakku. She finds the lightsaber and rejects it, running away after Max tells her that her family isn’t coming back. She gets captured by Kylo, who terrifies her. She manages to escape, then watches as the nice old man gets murdered by the guy that terrifies her.

She has a nice moment where she decides to help Finn beat up Kylo, seemingly embracing her destiny. But then things get weird. Her connection is to Finn and BB8. If she’s nobody...why does she care about finding Luke? Why does Leia send her and not Poe or herself? None of it makes sense. She shouldn’t want to leave Finn’s side.

But ok she goes. The only character in TLJ that she forms a bond with is...Kylo through all their Force-timing. She goes to turn Kylo back, but...why? Because she saw him with no shirt? If their attraction is sexual it needed to play out differently in the movie. If it’s not sexual, again - it makes no sense that she would think she can turn him. Their connection makes no sense at all, really. She saw him murder Han with her own two eyes. She should be more convinced of his inability to turn than even Luke’s.
 
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LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#18
Rey meets BB8. She forms a bond with him because he’s adorbs, but has no intention of leaving Jakku. She wants to turn right around after they initially escape. But then they find Han and have to escape again, but again she says she wants to go back to Jakku. She finds the lightsaber and rejects it, running away after Max tells her that her family isn’t coming back. She gets captured by Kylo, who terrifies her. She manages to escape, then watches as the nice old man gets murdered by the guy that terrifies her.


Sure the story works without her being related. She goes because she's on the run from the First Order/Jakku Mob. She goes because she's interested in adventure. She goes because she's drawn to it. She goes because when she touches the lightsaber she feels her latent Forcery go haywire. I know she said that she wanted to get back in case her parents decided to visit, but I never bought that excuse; I thought it was the weakest aspect of her character. I've seen you staring out the window daydreaming of adventure, you don't get to be like "well thanks for the ride, I'm going to go back begging for one quarter portions in case someone drops by."

I also don't get the "why would she be sad Han Solo died if she's not his daughter?" rationale.

And I think being a nobody does subvert Rey's expectations. She clearly wants/expects her parents to be someones, which is why Kylo saying "nope" disheartened her so.

And she wants to find Luke/Leia sends her to find Luke because (a) he's a mythic hero of the rebellion, she idolizes him so why wouldn't she want to go and see this mission to its end? Poe might have seen him as a decent military leader, but she's the only one of the new main characters who saw him as a JEDI. And (b) she has the Force. Luke would probably better know what to do with her and maybe they can bond over that rather than just sending Finn there in a two-seater and saying "oi, old man, let's go."
 

HandPanzer

O Tempora O Mores!
May 30, 2013
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#19
It would be funny if Kylo told her she's a nobody just to fuck with her head.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
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#20
If they would have made her a Skywalker/Solo from the beginning, without the mystery, I would have been fine with it. In fact, that would have been preferable, IMO.

But they didn't. They made her parentage a mystery. Dipping back into the "She's a Skywalker" well again is just lazy, uninspired writing.

On top of that, they intentionally created a timeline that makes her being a SkySo impossible. I suppose Ani could have slept around on Hot Pants Padme, but I doubt it.

If I have to choose between making her a Kenobi or Palpatine or making her a nobody, I vote nobody.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#21
It would be funny if Kylo told her she's a nobody just to fuck with her head.
"Hey baby. Your dad's a dick. My dad's a dick too. We like totally have so many things in common. Let me Force take off my shirt. Yeah, I bench but I don't like to talk about it."
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#23


Sure the story works without her being related. She goes because she's on the run from the First Order/Jakku Mob. She goes because she's interested in adventure. She goes because she's drawn to it. She goes because when she touches the lightsaber she feels her latent Forcery go haywire. I know she said that she wanted to get back in case her parents decided to visit, but I never bought that excuse; I thought it was the weakest aspect of her character. I've seen you staring out the window daydreaming of adventure, you don't get to be like "well thanks for the ride, I'm going to go back begging for one quarter portions in case someone drops by."

I also don't get the "why would she be sad Han Solo died if she's not his daughter?" rationale.

And I think being a nobody does subvert Rey's expectations. She clearly wants/expects her parents to be someones, which is why Kylo saying "nope" disheartened her so.

And she wants to find Luke/Leia sends her to find Luke because (a) he's a mythic hero of the rebellion, she idolizes him so why wouldn't she want to go and see this mission to its end? Poe might have seen him as a decent military leader, but she's the only one of the new main characters who saw him as a JEDI. And (b) she has the Force. Luke would probably better know what to do with her and maybe they can bond over that rather than just sending Finn there in a two-seater and saying "oi, old man, let's go."
Let’s do this since you compared it to the original trilogy, a comparison I really like because as you said it does highlight the poor execution of the mystery box in TFA.

Take Luke from A New Hope. Like Rey he yearns for adventure. Like Rey he has some funky unexplained abilities. Like Rey he never knew his parents and is curious about them.

Like Rey he is called to adventure by a droid in distress. But right there is where the similarities abruptly end. While Rey is motivated only by BB8’s cuteness, Luke is initially motivated by fear of potential punishment. Luke isn’t curious about Kenobi because he’s just some mythical Jedi, he’s curious because he has specific, personal knowledge about his father.

In Kenobi he found not only a means of escape from his life of boredom, but a personal connection to his father, a lightsaber, a cause worth fighting for, and a beautiful damsel in distress. Far more than what was put in front of Rey at any point. Even then he still chose to return to his aunt and uncle. It was only their murder and a desire to avenge them that spurred him into action. Personal stakes and a personal connection to Kenobi to go along with R2D2’s cuteness, the lure of adventure, and the overall battle of good vs evil.

In order to make Luke’s journey mirror Rey’s you have to remove not only Uncle Ben and Aunt Beru, you have to remove Kenobi. Luke has to track R2 to Mos Eisley and bump into Han, who tells him without even being prompted “yeah the Force is real. I can help you find Kenobi.”

Does that work? Do we have any reason to care about Luke? Kenobi? Any of it?
 

Stormrider666

Hell is home.
Mar 19, 2005
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#24
If they would have made her a Skywalker/Solo from the beginning, without the mystery, I would have been fine with it. In fact, that would have been preferable, IMO.

But they didn't. They made her parentage a mystery. Dipping back into the "She's a Skywalker" well again is just lazy, uninspired writing.

On top of that, they intentionally created a timeline that makes her being a SkySo impossible. I suppose Ani could have slept around on Hot Pants Padme, but I doubt it.

If I have to choose between making her a Kenobi or Palpatine or making her a nobody, I vote nobody.
If she is Kylo sister's or Luke's daughter, the timeline still fits and she would still be the granddaughter of Anakin and Padame.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#25
It would be funny if Kylo told her she's a nobody just to fuck with her head.
I still think he did it for the same reason he killed Snoke - to protect her. Think about it from his point of view - Han and Luke were completely evil. If she was related to them why in god’s name would he tell her that? It would immediately send her running back to them.

There’s always the possibility that she’s nobody and he just thinks she’s hot, but y’all keep telling me she’s not that hot, so...