Movie Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - We're Sorry, We're So So Sorry - December 20, 2019, dir. JJ Abrams

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Not 100% sure if this is legit, but if that's C-3PO holding a bowcaster, I kind of want it to be:
If this is real, I guess they are finally swinging back around to the KoR.
 

LiddyRules

I Think I'll Eat An Apple
If this is real, I guess they are finally swinging back around to the KoR.
They kind of have to. It would be pretty f'ed up if they don't.

That or the movie ends with Rey and Ren waking up in bed next to each other, Rey says "so what's the deal with the Knights of Ren?" and Ren bug eyes mugs for the camera like he left the stove on. DIRECTED BY JJ ABRAMS.
 

LiddyRules

I Think I'll Eat An Apple
It proved that Star Wars doesn't know what to do with Boyega and that he was totally misused in TLJ.
For some reason this line made me think of something I hadn't thought of before. Or if I had, I forgot it. Or if I stole it, I forgot from whom I stole it.

They fucked up with the casting of Poe and Finn. It should have been reversed. Isaac tends to do well with darker, conflicted characters like Llewyn Davis, Ex Machina, and Hey I'm The Mayor of Yonkers, whereas Boyega is the brightly rogueish character. And the character of Finn would make more sense if he was a bit darker, broodier, and conflicted because he's a former Stormtrooper who turned his back on the only home and people he ever knew. So why is he jovial and snarky from the word go?

If Boyega was Poe and Isaac was Finn - and they weren't written exactly alike - it would have given them reasonably different personalities but still allowed them to play off each other.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
For some reason this line made me think of something I hadn't thought of before. Or if I had, I forgot it. Or if I stole it, I forgot from whom I stole it.

They fucked up with the casting of Poe and Finn. It should have been reversed. Isaac tends to do well with darker, conflicted characters like Llewyn Davis, Ex Machina, and Hey I'm The Mayor of Yonkers, whereas Boyega is the brightly rogueish character. And the character of Finn would make more sense if he was a bit darker, broodier, and conflicted because he's a former Stormtrooper who turned his back on the only home and people he ever knew. So why is he jovial and snarky from the word go?

If Boyega was Poe and Isaac was Finn - and they weren't written exactly alike - it would have given them reasonably different personalities but still allowed them to play off each other.
Are you insane? You know how mad the internet would be if they recast Poe with a black actor? #NotMyPoeBro
 
For some reason this line made me think of something I hadn't thought of before. Or if I had, I forgot it. Or if I stole it, I forgot from whom I stole it.

They fucked up with the casting of Poe and Finn. It should have been reversed. Isaac tends to do well with darker, conflicted characters like Llewyn Davis, Ex Machina, and Hey I'm The Mayor of Yonkers, whereas Boyega is the brightly rogueish character. And the character of Finn would make more sense if he was a bit darker, broodier, and conflicted because he's a former Stormtrooper who turned his back on the only home and people he ever knew. So why is he jovial and snarky from the word go?

If Boyega was Poe and Isaac was Finn - and they weren't written exactly alike - it would have given them reasonably different personalities but still allowed them to play off each other.
For some reason they wanted Boyega to be the comedic relief of the movie. But instead of his character being like the one in Uprising, Finn is more slapsticky.
 

LiddyRules

I Think I'll Eat An Apple
Are you insane? You know how mad the internet would be if they recast Poe with a black actor? #NotMyPoeBro
Don't you remember the Daily Mail or the Guardian tried to build up a controversy around him being black around the time the TFA trailer came out? It's in the TFA thread.

And I'm not talking about a recast, I'm talking about a precast. Switch them from TFA forward. And as an additional bonus, it would also give more credence to my theory about the Del Toro character.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
Don't you remember the Daily Mail or the Guardian tried to build up a controversy around him being black around the time the TFA trailer came out? It's in the TFA thread.

And I'm not talking about a recast, I'm talking about a precast. Switch them from TFA forward. And as an additional bonus, it would also give more credence to my theory about the Del Toro character.
I know what you meant. I was joking.

Someone has a theory about the Del Toro character?
 

LiddyRules

I Think I'll Eat An Apple
I know what you meant. I was joking.

Someone has a theory about the Del Toro character?
I did and it ties into extending the movie past its natural end point by an additional half hour.

Though keep in mind that my theory could be shot down with the response "believing things in a movie should have a purpose is an expectation...."

Del Toro's character is named DJ, which stands for Don't Join - that's actually true. I didn't know that until I read it on the Wiki - and his basic ideology is you should have no allegiance to either side. A character like that only works IF he provides temptation for the main characters to sacrifice or question their values. They will probably return to the light eventually, but that type of character needs to lure someone away from the 'right' path. In TLJ, neither Rose nor Finn seem even mildly interested in what he has to offer nor his alternative lifestyle. So he serves no purpose because it never feels like he's enticing them away from the Resistance, which as written should be his purpose.

I think Finn's arc in TLJ - and the way DJ would have fulfilled some sort of function - should have been him turning away from the Resistance. Not turning away from doing good or betraying his friends or selling people out, but turning away from being a soldier. His entire life has been jumping from one army to the other army, and DJ is the first person who makes him both realize "you don't have to just be a soldier" and question if there's any difference between the armies anyway. Not that DJ is actually right in that assessment, but it makes Finn wonder if he is right. And that makes Finn go off on his own to find himself, leaving his status open ended for Episode 9.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
I did and it ties into extending the movie past its natural end point by an additional half hour.

Though keep in mind that my theory could be shot down with the response "believing things in a movie should have a purpose is an expectation...."

Del Toro's character is named DJ, which stands for Don't Join - that's actually true. I didn't know that until I read it on the Wiki - and his basic ideology is you should have no allegiance to either side. A character like that only works IF he provides temptation for the main characters to sacrifice or question their values. They will probably return to the light eventually, but that type of character needs to lure someone away from the 'right' path. In TLJ, neither Rose nor Finn seem even mildly interested in what he has to offer nor his alternative lifestyle. So he serves no purpose because it never feels like he's enticing them away from the Resistance, which as written should be his purpose.

I think Finn's arc in TLJ - and the way DJ would have fulfilled some sort of function - should have been him turning away from the Resistance. Not turning away from doing good or betraying his friends or selling people out, but turning away from being a soldier. His entire life has been jumping from one army to the other army, and DJ is the first person who makes him both realize "you don't have to just be a soldier" and question if there's any difference between the armies anyway. Not that DJ is actually right in that assessment, but it makes Finn wonder if he is right. And that makes Finn go off on his own to find himself, leaving his status open ended for Episode 9.
I don't even think you need to change the movie's structure, or leave Finn's fate open ended.

I like the angle though - And they had time with the three characters and even a scene where those discussions would make sense - that scene where they realize the evil rich people are selling to both sides. Then when they get to the Death Star, Finn could spot a very alive Phasma and have a panic attack and question why he's even there as you said. Then maybe he runs and hides somewhere, sees DJ betray Potato and BB8, and he's the one who gets in the AT-ST and rescues them. Then his confrontation with Phasma means something. Johnson can even leave that cringe inducing line about saving what you love in, but have Finn be the one that delivers it.

And I think you could then just leave Finn and Potato mostly out of the Battle of Salt. Poe's arc can be completed by him simply calling off the attack on the walkers and letting them blast the door in. Maybe that's when Finn and Rose show up, and they rescue the remaining rebels while Rey and Chewie distract the First Order.
 

LiddyRules

I Think I'll Eat An Apple
I don't even think you need to change the movie's structure, or leave Finn's fate open ended.

I like the angle though - And they had time with the three characters and even a scene where those discussions would make sense - that scene where they realize the evil rich people are selling to both sides. Then when they get to the Death Star, Finn could spot a very alive Phasma and have a panic attack and question why he's even there as you said. Then maybe he runs and hides somewhere, sees DJ betray Potato and BB8, and he's the one who gets in the AT-ST and rescues them. Then his confrontation with Phasma means something. Johnson can even leave that cringe inducing line about saving what you love in, but have Finn be the one that delivers it.

And I think you could then just leave Finn and Potato mostly out of the Battle of Salt. Poe's arc can be completed by him simply calling off the attack on the walkers and letting them blast the door in. Maybe that's when Finn and Rose show up, and they rescue the remaining rebels while Rey and Chewie distract the First Order.
That could work too. The ultimate point that I think we're in agreement on is that Finn needed to question what he was doing and eventually realize he was doing the right thing for the right reasons. Without that moment of doubt, which never happens, the Del Toro character is pointless. And the Finn character is also pointless because he has no arc.

As for the Battle of Salt...I don't know how to make it better. It was so unnecessary. And I still think timeline wise, the First Order arrive on the planet before most of the Resistance.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
That could work too. The ultimate point that I think we're in agreement on is that Finn needed to question what he was doing and eventually realize he was doing the right thing for the right reasons. Without that moment of doubt, which never happens, the Del Toro character is pointless. And the Finn character is also pointless because he has no arc.

As for the Battle of Salt...I don't know how to make it better. It was so unnecessary. And I still think timeline wise, the First Order arrive on the planet before most of the Resistance.
One thing I just thought of when you said that - why didn't the First Order just send Tie Fighters to destroy the escape pods? I'm sure the Tie Fighters were faster.
 

LiddyRules

I Think I'll Eat An Apple
One thing I just thought of when you said that - why didn't the First Order just send Tie Fighters to destroy the escape pods? I'm sure the Tie Fighters were faster.
Because Holdo destroyed most of their fleet! Except for most of their fleet, which seemed pretty together and not at all frazzled when they got to Salt Planet. I mean seriously, not a hair was out of place on any of them.

This is why my 'vision' had Finn's fate open ended. Because for all of its flaws, I think TLJ was fairly salvageable until we got to the extended Battle of Salt ending. Up until then, the biggest problem with the movie (other than Luke not being an action figure) was the Canto Bright stuff, and if you gave Finn a storyline or arc that made sense (him questioning what he was doing), even that would have been less painful.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
For anyone that cares about the title and trailer. I assume they will get to it eventually:

 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
Ok there's 6 possible meanings I can think of to Rise of Skywalker. Here are the 6 in order of likelihood:

1) Rey is a Skywalker. Either a clone or a kid.
2) Luke comes back - Rey might not be the only clone, or he just comes back as a Force Ghost, or he was never dead in the first place
3) Mara Jade Skywalker?
4) Rey and Kylo have a kid - technically a 3rd generation Skywalker
5) Clone of Anakin?
6) Kylo is redeemed. Thing is he's a Solo, right? So that doesn't really work so well. Even if he's redeemed I don't think that's what the title is referring to.

And I think there's a possibility it may mean more than one of those things.
 
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Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
I don't hate the idea of Force Ghost Luke and Force Ghost Palpy having a Force Ghost Fight.
 

Bill Lehecka

Whiny Man Baby
Donator
Re: Skywalker's Hand (Spoiler in case I'm right):

I mean, why else would Ian McDiarmid be in this film? Flashback to the gathering of the hand? It would make her a Skywalker without being Luke's daughter. Would she still be his progeny?
 
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