Movie Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - We're Sorry, We're So So Sorry - December 20, 2019, dir. JJ Abrams

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
It's December! Star Wars Episode 9 - the final chapter until the next chapter - opens in just 17 days. I think it's time for me to set my expectations in stone, so that you can all point and laugh at me when I don't get my way and declare the movie shite as a result. I'm not as close-minded as I was with Endgame, where they essentially couldn't kill Iron Man and have me like the movie. But there are things that would really hurt Episode 9, in my opinion. Most important is what they do with Rey and Kylo, and I guess the Emperor.

First, Kylo. He killed Han Solo. He led the attack that wiped out 90% of the Resistance. He butchered all of Luke's students at the Academy. All of this happened very recently. He should be beyond redemption. The one thing that could redeem him isn't Rey's vajayjay, it's the truth about Darth Vader - that he turned back to the light and betrayed and murdered the Emperor. Maybe Kylo legit doesn't know this somehow. @BIV might be able to shed some light on this through his reading. I suppose it's also possible that he doesn't know Leia survived the attack on the bridge in Last Jedi, so that knowledge could impact him as well. Anyway, there's only so much redemption the guy can get. Would it be cheesy for him to sacrifice himself the way Vader did? Yes, but that's always felt like that's where this was heading. Maybe Last Jedi just delayed the inevitable.

The rumor is that

Kylo does turn and kills the Knights of Ren, but then gets offed pretty much instantly by the Emperor, leaving Rey to take down Palps by herself. That...wouldn't work. It's not enough redemption for Kylo to simply kill the Knights of Ren. He has to be instrumental in defeating the Emperor. And not via Force Ghost as the rumor suggests.

Rey. Seems like they're going to reveal something else about her parents. The fact that they're bringing Palps back puts her being a Palps on the table. But the fact that they never planned for Palps to come back when they wrote Episodes 7 or 8 means it should be unlikely. So let's break it down, in order of "Would suck the least" to "Would suck the most."

Rey is a clone of Luke - This is probably the one and only "Rey is a somebody" solution that actually works. There's plenty of setup for this in Episodes 7 and 8, and seems like it has been the plan all along. A cloning scientist even showed up in The Mandalorian. This could very easily be another hint. Maybe they're testing Yaby to see if Force sensitivity passes on through cloning. The last episode of The Mandalorian airs well after Rise of Skywalker comes out. Perhaps it will be the "story for another time" that Max promised in Episode 7 - the story of how they found Luke's hand and the lightsaber. Would they use the popular Mandalorian show to legitimize the sequel trilogy? I'm sure they would.

Nothing on reddit supports this. Has JJ fooled everyone?

Rey is nobody - Look, that's what Kylo said. And villains never lie, right? But if they intend to continue this series without the Skywalkers, Rey being a nobody is actually the best way to do this. However

The Reddit leak claims she takes the name Skywalker at the end of the film, giving the movie it's title. That would be so cringe inducing that I almost believe it's true, but...no. I can't accept that. If this brings the Skywalker saga to a close, she can't then call herself Skywalker. Fuck you.

Rey is a Skywalker -As BIV has pointed out, New EU doesn't seem to support her being a legit Skywalker, although there are probably ways they can talk their way around that.

A "Certain Point of View" was a central theme of the Last Jedi.

Johnson left the door open a lot wider than most people give him credit for. But that's the thing - If Kylo and Johnson were only telling the truth from a certain point of view, they fooled nearly everyone. The Last Jedi didn't leave enough clues to an alternative, so if she's revealed as a Skywalker, I don't think it's going to play well with the majority of fans.

Nothing on Reddit supports this, which again goes to my point that it wouldn't feel right if they suddenly pulled this out of nowhere.

Rey is a Palpatine - With the Emperor coming back, this is now on the table. But I can't stress enough how terrible this would be. Track Luke's journey through the original trilogy:
Episode 4 - He's a good kid, strong with the Force, but his Uncle frets that he's got too much of his father in him. He watches Vader murder his mentor.
Episode 5 - He trains in the Force, but fails some crucial tests. First he fails in the tree, where he lets his fear of Vader and his fear of turning to the Dark Side overcome him. Then he rushes off to face Vader before he's ready for the truth. He is horrified to learn Vader is his father.
Episode 6 - He has accepted the truth, and is struggling with having to kill his own father. He overcomes his fear and anger and spares his father's life, finally becoming a Jedi Knight. In doing so he inspires his father to turn back to the light.

Vader is a constant looming presence throughout the trilogy, so when we learn the truth along with Luke, we're all horrified. Rey theoretically doesn't even know who the fucking Emperor is. Him being some long lost relative isn't going to mean much to her. And she's had no character development in the first two films. The rumor is that Sexy Dark Rey is just a vision that she brushes off. If that's all they have time to do with this, it will be a massive fail. A character that Rey doesn't know showing up and saying "I'm your mommy's daddy" means nothing to Rey. It might be a fun nugget for the audience, but in the movie - meaningless.

While this would be high on the suck-o-meter, it feels like the most likely scenario, because JJ has made this exact mistake before:


The Reddit leaks claim that Rey is in fact Palps' granddaughter. This can't be true. If it is, the movie is likely ruined for me.

Rey is a Kenobi - This has always been a fucking trainwreck of an idea. Kenobi has been completely absent from Episode 7 and 8. Kylo is named after him, but beyond that...oof. I can't think of anything that would be less satisfying than this. Will they then use a Kenobi series to show him breaking his Jedi vows and getting the drawers? They can't do that. Just...no.


And finally, The Emperor - There must be a reason for them bringing the Emperor back. It could simply be that Johnson killed Snoke and they needed a big bad, and didn't feel like Hux could be that guy. And they're certainly right about that. People loved the idea of the Emperor coming back at first, but there's been increasing chatter that this delegitimizes Vader's sacrifice in Return of the Jedi. I agree with this. I'm hoping against hope that Palps is a clone in this movie. That would tie into the best case scenario with Rey without forcing some relationship between them. Plus, it helps keep Vader's sacrifice whole. Maybe Palps is so weak in Episode 9 because there wasn't much left of him to clone, and that's why he's trying to harvest Force energy from Yaby. Who the hell knows.

As much as I love Palps and his evil monologues, the last thing I want to see is a 10 minute explanation of how he survived the Death Star explosion and then went on a 10 year fuck spree that eventually led to Rey.
 
@Pigdango (Tagging onto your thoughts without replying to the whole thing)

I'm trying to decide how this rumor fits in

Hux is supposedly a double agent for the Resistance

Seeing how that would leave the First Order without any leadership between the two figureheads it seems that Kylo needs to be the baddie until the end.

Or (one of my theories earlier)

If Hux is a double agent and Kylo crosses back from the Dark Side, that opens up the First Order to join the Resistance/Rebellion in whatever final showdown we have at the end against Palpatine's forces. That would give us the gratuitous space battle amongst thousands of ships while Kylo and Rey deal with Palpatine directly.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
@Pigdango (Tagging onto your thoughts without replying to the whole thing)

I'm trying to decide how this rumor fits in

Hux is supposedly a double agent for the Resistance

Seeing how that would leave the First Order without any leadership between the two figureheads it seems that Kylo needs to be the baddie until the end.

Or (one of my theories earlier)

If Hux is a double agent and Kylo crosses back from the Dark Side, that opens up the First Order to join the Resistance/Rebellion in whatever final showdown we have at the end against Palpatine's forces. That would give us the gratuitous space battle amongst thousands of ships while Kylo and Rey deal with Palpatine directly.
Hux being a double agent fits with his character...in a way. He despises Kylo, and finding out that the Emperor has amassed a second, far superior fleet could also get his panties in a bunch. It also gives him a reason to be in the film. But at the same time, it doesn't feel right to me. If he was brave enough to do that, he would have shot Kylo when he had the chance. And it seems absurd that he would lead an attack with the goal of wiping out the Resistance and then decide to help them.

The thing that fits the most for his character is that he would learn of the Emperor and his new fleet and try to weasel his way in with them. So I hope the rumor is wrong. Hux and Kylo trying to redeem themselves would be ridiculous.

That space battle at the end...I just don't really understand it. I hope to god that the rumor isn't true

That the Emperor's entire fleet can be defeated by taking out one "control ship," and that's where Finn and Rose are riding to on their space horses. I suppose that would tie things back to Episode 1, but why in heaven's name would they want to remind anyone of that?
 

HandPanzer

Shantih Shantih Shantih
I'm not going in automatically hating it. In fact, my expectations are pretty low so I won't be shocked if I come out pleasantly surprised.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
I'm not going in automatically hating it. In fact, my expectations are pretty low so I won't be shocked if I come out pleasantly surprised.
Pretty much where I'm at.

I'm managed to avoid most of the reddit garbage so far and hope to continue doing so. We know segments from the actual script have leaked but which tidbits are real and which are reddit fiction are too hard to differentiate at this point.

@Pigdango

Nothing in what I've read has indicated clear answers to your questions about kylo piggy. There is a vague suggestion that his knowledge of what happened around Vader is sketchy. But we don't know to what extent.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
My bet is...me hedging.

First. I believe 100% that she's a clone.
The clone of who, is the issue.

1. Kenobi: 1%.
Reasoning: Have to allow for utter stupidity
2. Ben: 2%
Reasoning: A new theory I heard, but still moronic. But I give it a slightly higher chance than Kenobi. The theory goes that unoriginal Disney wants to mimic the Luke/Leia dynamic.
3. Luke: 42%
Reasoning: The Hand and OG comic books. Old school fans know all about Luuke and his hand. Disney isn't shy about stealing from Legends when they are creatively bankrupt. This may have even been the original plan from the beginning. This would be my bet if it wasn't for the return of the Emperor.
4. The Emperor: 50%
Reasoning: I think this is how they will tie everything together. Palps survived, either physically but broken or as a dark spirit and he's been trying to clone himself back to life. His first attempt was Snoke, who's body was twisted by the dark side during the cloning process and was a failure. Rey was his latest attempt, made from his blood but developed without the corrupting influence of the dark side.

That leaves 5%. Which I am reserving for the horrific idea that Palps created her from the force, just like Anikan.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
Why? Let it crash and burn in the most epic fashion possible.


But then we get Dancing Joker, stupid kid Bruce Wayne, and Bat-Pat. So the crash and burn thing never really works out the way we think it will, does it? Every failure of Star Wars doesn't mean they're going to stop making Star Wars. More likely it pushes them closer to making Star Wars that nobody wants to see.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
My bet is...me hedging.

First. I believe 100% that she's a clone.
The clone of who, is the issue.

1. Kenobi: 1%.
Reasoning: Have to allow for utter stupidity
2. Ben: 2%
Reasoning: A new theory I heard, but still moronic. But I give it a slightly higher chance than Kenobi. The theory goes that unoriginal Disney wants to mimic the Luke/Leia dynamic.
3. Luke: 42%
Reasoning: The Hand and OG comic books. Old school fans know all about Luuke and his hand. Disney isn't shy about stealing from Legends when they are creatively bankrupt. This may have even been the original plan from the beginning. This would be my bet if it wasn't for the return of the Emperor.
4. The Emperor: 50%
Reasoning: I think this is how they will tie everything together. Palps survived, either physically but broken or as a dark spirit and he's been trying to clone himself back to life. His first attempt was Snoke, who's body was twisted by the dark side during the cloning process and was a failure. Rey was his latest attempt, made from his blood but developed without the corrupting influence of the dark side.

That leaves 5%. Which I am reserving for the horrific idea that Palps created her from the force, just like Anikan.
I do like the idea that Snoke was a failed clone of the Emperor.

Perhaps Rey is some conglomerated mongrel clone of Yaby, Luke, and the Emperor? That would certainly explain her Force Perfection.
 
My bet is...me hedging.

First. I believe 100% that she's a clone.
The clone of who, is the issue.

1. Kenobi: 1%.
Reasoning: Have to allow for utter stupidity
2. Ben: 2%
Reasoning: A new theory I heard, but still moronic. But I give it a slightly higher chance than Kenobi. The theory goes that unoriginal Disney wants to mimic the Luke/Leia dynamic.
3. Luke: 42%
Reasoning: The Hand and OG comic books. Old school fans know all about Luuke and his hand. Disney isn't shy about stealing from Legends when they are creatively bankrupt. This may have even been the original plan from the beginning. This would be my bet if it wasn't for the return of the Emperor.
4. The Emperor: 50%
Reasoning: I think this is how they will tie everything together. Palps survived, either physically but broken or as a dark spirit and he's been trying to clone himself back to life. His first attempt was Snoke, who's body was twisted by the dark side during the cloning process and was a failure. Rey was his latest attempt, made from his blood but developed without the corrupting influence of the dark side.

That leaves 5%. Which I am reserving for the horrific idea that Palps created her from the force, just like Anikan.
This plotline would require another full length movie to tell. Which means we'll be left empty and disappointed regardless of the answer. I'd guess Rey interacted on some level with Luke/Han/Leia before TFA. None of them seemed overly shocked by the revelation of a new supreme force user appearing out of nowhere containing the genetic makeup of one of the known characters. So regardless of whose clone she was, what is that story?

I agree with you that one of those options is likely, I just don't think they can satisfactorily wrap up the big reveal in a 5 minute soundbyte.
 
My bet is...me edging.
Fixed



But then we get Dancing Joker, stupid kid Bruce Wayne, and Bat-Pat. So the crash and burn thing never really works out the way we think it will, does it?
Nope, sometimes we just get Meteor Man, and its dead forever.

Every failure of Star Wars doesn't mean they're going to stop making Star Wars. More likely it pushes them closer to making Star Wars that nobody wants to see.
...so they make bad star wars ..to make badder star wars?
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
This plotline would require another full length movie to tell. Which means we'll be left empty and disappointed regardless of the answer. I'd guess Rey interacted on some level with Luke/Han/Leia before TFA. None of them seemed overly shocked by the revelation of a new supreme force user appearing out of nowhere containing the genetic makeup of one of the known characters. So regardless of whose clone she was, what is that story?

I agree with you that one of those options is likely, I just don't think they can satisfactorily wrap up the big reveal in a 5 minute soundbyte.
Cloning is the thing that requires the least explanation.
 
Cloning is the thing that requires the least explanation.
The least explanation of why Rey is Rey. But it opens up a ton of other questions as to why she ended up on Jakku, why the main characters had an immediate affinity to her, why she had a vision when she touched the lightsaber, etc.

Cloning to me was heavily foreshadowed during Luke's training session when she was in the cave of mirrors with thousands of Reys.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
The least explanation of why Rey is Rey. But it opens up a ton of other questions as to why she ended up on Jakku, why the main characters had an immediate affinity to her, why she had a vision when she touched the lightsaber, etc.

Cloning to me was heavily foreshadowed during Luke's training session when she was in the cave of mirrors with thousands of Reys.
You don't have proper Disney mindset.
Everyone had an affinity for her...because she's Rey. And Rey is great. Everything about her. She's the bestest. You can't help but like her...and something, something the Force.

They are not going to explain shit. She was on Jakku because that's where she was dumped and the force.

The lightsaber wasn't specifically about her except the force guiding her.

They are going to wash over anything that might be interesting and explain it all with three lines of Emperor exposition.
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
I am looking forward to TROS because I am so fucking desperate for this to be over. Not the series but everything surrounding the series. I am fucking tired of getting riled up over a space fantasy and explaining why I'm not riled up enough. I am fucking tired of defending a mostly adequate series merely because I don't find it the worst thing ever put on film. I am fucking tired of being accused of being above it all because I'm not offended by an action figure. I am fucking tired of the same 'how Rey beat Kylo Ren in TFA' debate. I am fucking tired of the incessant “but girl space wizard lifted rocks faster than boy space wizard!” arguments. (I still think that Kylo trying to open her mind with the Force in TFA made her more susceptible to Force-ness in a way Luke never was. Does it matter? Nope. Who fucking cares?) You want to know why there's a giant space battle, because it's fucking Star Wars and Star Wars has fucking space battles and Abrams said “fuck it, it's the last one so let's go all out.” And most people who see Star Wars want to see a fucking space battle, they're not getting all worked up with “um technically the Force can't do that and that ship's velocity is wrong.”

I honestly wish I had never gotten involved in the discussion, so like 95% of people I can see the trailer, go “oh a Star Wars,” see it, and forget about it. I just want this to be over with so we can move the fuck on. I don't even know what the fuck to move onto. I'm just exhausted with this nonsense.

But 17 fucking days. Can't back out now.
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
@Pigdango

I looked at your theory but avoided the Reddit garbage. I agree with a lot of what you said. I never liked the Emperor coming back. I always thought it felt like forced fan service in the way Fett was in AotC. I like your explanations about Rey, but Luke's daughter always hit a sour note for me and after TLJ, Luke's clone also doesn't ring true. I think if she's gong to be anyone, it's going to be some Palps weirdness. We'll get some “I am drawn to this place” nonsense and her connection to him will better enable him to take her over in the Dark Rey sequence. Plus if she's a Skywalker, wouldn't that make Kylo Sex Time weird? I mean he'd be having love with his uncle. #Gross!

I think Kylo will be redeemed. Han Solo seemed okay with dying. And now he's doing a movie with a CGI dog, whom he likes better than any of his co-stars in TFA or 2049. For his fate, I go with what I said earlier. Hux gets the Knights of Ren to betray him, he kills the Knights of Ren but turns his back on the First Order. That sets him down a darker path to follow the cartoon pie aroma of Dark Side and get power for his own.

Palpatine possesses Rey, Luke apologizes to Kylo for failing him (as opposed to TLJ's neener neener, Jedi's rule, Sith drool taunt), Kylo sends heart waves over to Rey, which breaks her out of his trance. At the end, Rey and Kylo take off together to establish the Jedi order with an appropriate ethical balance as Kylo can use his experience with the First Order and Snoke to teach Defense Against the Dark Arts.
 
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LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
As for what I want to see happen -- I wrote a 600 word Yoby ending that wasn't nearly as amusing as I thought when I first put it down, which is why it's always good to step away when you find yourself going down that pit.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
As for what I want to see happen -- I wrote a 600 word Yoby ending that wasn't nearly as amusing as I thought when I first put it down, which is why it's always good to step away when you find yourself going down that pit.
It’s never good to step away from Yaby.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
80 year old pre-teen yoda steps in to save the day.

I am looking forward to TROS because I am so fucking desperate for this to be over. Not the series but everything surrounding the series. I am fucking tired of getting riled up over a space fantasy and explaining why I'm not riled up enough. I am fucking tired of defending a mostly adequate series merely because I don't find it the worst thing ever put on film. I am fucking tired of being accused of being above it all because I'm not offended by an action figure. I am fucking tired of the same 'how Rey beat Kylo Ren in TFA' debate. I am fucking tired of the incessant “but girl space wizard lifted rocks faster than boy space wizard!” arguments. (I still think that Kylo trying to open her mind with the Force in TFA made her more susceptible to Force-ness in a way Luke never was. Does it matter? Nope. Who fucking cares?) You want to know why there's a giant space battle, because it's fucking Star Wars and Star Wars has fucking space battles and Abrams said “fuck it, it's the last one so let's go all out.” And most people who see Star Wars want to see a fucking space battle, they're not getting all worked up with “um technically the Force can't do that and that ship's velocity is wrong.”

I honestly wish I had never gotten involved in the discussion, so like 95% of people I can see the trailer, go “oh a Star Wars,” see it, and forget about it. I just want this to be over with so we can move the fuck on. I don't even know what the fuck to move onto. I'm just exhausted with this nonsense.

But 17 fucking days. Can't back out now.
Do you need a hug? Asthma inhaler?

I, too, just want this over.

You know those few seconds before a car crash, when you know your fucked?

That's been extended out over two years in anticipation of this film. Time to put bullet/blaster bolt in it.
 
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