State Bill Would Allow Guns on Campus

Hudson

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Jan 14, 2002
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Long article..1st part of article
State Bill Would Allow Guns on Campus By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD,
The New York Times
Posted: 2008-03-05 11:06:55
Filed Under: Law News, Nation News, Politics News
PHOENIX (March 5) - Horrified by recent campus shootings, a state lawmaker here has come up with a proposal in keeping with the Taurus .22-caliber pistol tucked in her purse: Get more guns on campus.

The lawmaker, State Senator Karen S. Johnson, has sponsored a bill, which the Senate Judiciary Committee approved last week, that would allow people with a concealed weapons permit — limited to those 21 and older here — to carry their firearms at public colleges and universities. Concealed weapons are generally not permitted at most public establishments, including colleges Ms. Johnson, a Republican from Mesa, said she believed that the recent carnage at Northern Illinois University could have been prevented or limited if an armed student or professor had intercepted the gunman. The police, she said, respond too slowly to such incidents and, besides, who better than the people staring down the barrel to take action?

She initially wanted her bill to cover all public schools, kindergarten and up, but other lawmakers convinced her it stood a better chance of passing if it were limited to higher education.

“I feel like our kindergartners are sitting there like sitting ducks,” Ms. Johnson said last week when the bill passed the committee by a 4-to-3 vote.

This is a generally gun-friendly state, where people are allowed to carry a weapon on their hip without a permit as long as people can see it. Even so, Ms. Johnson acknowledges that her views come from the far right — she recently described herself, half-jokingly, she says, as a “right-wing wacko.”
:icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek:

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/state-bill-would-allow-guns-on-campus/20080305092609990001
 

Budyzir

There's nothing quite like a shorn scrotum.
Nov 12, 2004
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Queens, NY
#3
As pro gun as I am, I have mixed feelings about this. What kind of training would these people have? Firing away in a panic, they could cause even more casualties. Also, just thinking back to my college days; armed students + campus parties = bedlam.

I'd rather see better trained and arm campus security, with a first response, SWAT type capability.
 

WaddleDoodle

Creepy? We're the CIA. It's what we do.
Mar 15, 2005
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#8
As pro gun as I am, I have mixed feelings about this. What kind of training would these people have? Firing away in a panic, they could cause even more casualties. Also, just thinking back to my college days; armed students + campus parties = bedlam.

I'd rather see better trained and arm campus security, with a first response, SWAT type capability.
When seconds count...the cops are only minutes away. I know, it's hack, but it's true.

Now, as far as I know, most of these proposals only allow guns on campus for people who can legally carry them. You know, people who have already gone through licencing, jumped through hoops, and paid out the nose. They are not going to jeopardize that by bringing a gun to a frat party and boozing it up. That's illegal no matter where you do it.

I don't have the stats ready to support, so I'll just say that registered gun owners with CCW/LTCF are MUCH MORE law abiding that you're regular joe shmo. When you invest in something (CCW classes are $$$$, along with the permit, ammo to practice, actual firearm...etc), you don't want to jeopardize it.
 

Hudson

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When seconds count...the cops are only minutes away. I know, it's hack, but it's true.

Now, as far as I know, most of these proposals only allow guns on campus for people who can legally carry them. You know, people who have already gone through licencing, jumped through hoops, and paid out the nose. They are not going to jeopardize that by bringing a gun to a frat party and boozing it up. That's illegal no matter where you do it.

I don't have the stats ready to support, so I'll just say that registered gun owners with CCW/LTCF are MUCH MORE law abiding that you're regular joe shmo. When you invest in something (CCW classes are $$$$, along with the permit, ammo to practice, actual firearm...etc), you don't want to jeopardize it.
Here all you have to do is buy a gun.. a concealed weapon permit is apparently pretty easy to get too. As long as they can see it on you..it is not concealed.
 
Jul 13, 2006
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Arkansas
#10
As pro gun as I am, I have mixed feelings about this. What kind of training would these people have? Firing away in a panic, they could cause even more casualties. Also, just thinking back to my college days; armed students + campus parties = bedlam.

I'd rather see better trained and arm campus security, with a first response, SWAT type capability.
I'm sorry sir but we aren't a police force, so we don't have to waste our time at an academy.

Most everyone with a CHL is very well versed and accurate with firearms because we train independently with our and others' safety as a motivator instead of a bi-weekly paycheck and "authority":action-sm

We go through the same screening, as a private citizen, as government agents and police go through(minus polygraph).

So, don't be such a scaredy cat fella :action-sm
 
Jul 13, 2006
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Arkansas
#11
I don't have the stats ready to support, so I'll just say that registered gun owners with CCW/LTCF are MUCH MORE law abiding that you're regular joe shmo. When you invest in something (CCW classes are $$$$, along with the permit, ammo to practice, actual firearm...etc), you don't want to jeopardize it.
I think the stats here in Arkansas for CHL say that like .8% of licenses get revoked (comitted a crime or something stupid)
 

TrybalRage

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Aug 5, 2004
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#12
As pro gun as I am, I have mixed feelings about this. What kind of training would these people have? Firing away in a panic, they could cause even more casualties. Also, just thinking back to my college days; armed students + campus parties = bedlam.

I'd rather see better trained and arm campus security, with a first response, SWAT type capability.
So the legally permitted carriers are somehow more dangerous depending on where they are sitting?

I don't want to depend on anyone to save my ass. Hell, most of the Virginia Tech victims died after the police had already showed up.

As far as panic, from what I read in the news SWAT teams are just as susceptible to making bad calls as anyone else.

Colleges in Utah allow concealed carry and I haven't heard of any mayhem out there.
 

TrybalRage

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Aug 5, 2004
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Kennesaw, GA
#13
(CCW classes are $$$$, along with the permit, ammo to practice, actual firearm...etc), you don't want to jeopardize it.
Classes? Bwahaha.

Here in PA the only requirements are $20, a clear background check and a smile for the camera.
 

WaddleDoodle

Creepy? We're the CIA. It's what we do.
Mar 15, 2005
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#14
Classes? Bwahaha.

Here in PA the only requirements are $20, a clear background check and a smile for the camera.
Yeah, I know, I have a PALTCF. $46 in Chester County. But I'll be getting a VA CCW when I have the money for the classes. It's beside the point, however, since I had classes when I was a wee lad, but don't have the paperwork anymore.
 

weakside

He was stupid. I was lucky. I will visit him soon.
Dec 9, 2004
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#17
Um, I’m all for gun owner’s rights but this is a stupid, stupid idea. People do realize that in all the thousands of schools that kids attend every day a “school shooting” is incredibly rare.
 

d0uche_n0zzle

**Negative_Creep**
Sep 15, 2004
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#18
The one and only thing that stops a school shooting, or any shooting is killing the person shooting with a...GUN.
 

Budyzir

There's nothing quite like a shorn scrotum.
Nov 12, 2004
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#20
OK folks, just thinking aloud in type ...

I'm sorry sir but we aren't a police force, so we don't have to waste our time at an academy.

Most everyone with a CHL is very well versed and accurate with firearms because we train independently with our and others' safety as a motivator instead of a bi-weekly paycheck and "authority":action-sm

We go through the same screening, as a private citizen, as government agents and police go through(minus polygraph).

So, don't be such a scaredy cat fella :action-sm
Not a scaredy cat and I see from your profile that your 24, you're mature than say a 18 or 19 year old and you have taken the various course work to have your permit AND, trust me I wish I had the option to do that here in NYC but, my concern revolve around the differing state laws. I don't know how the laws differ between AZ and AR but I would hope that AZ has existing laws in place to screen and train those who carry firearms.

So the legally permitted carriers are somehow more dangerous depending on where they are sitting?

I don't want to depend on anyone to save my ass. Hell, most of the Virginia Tech victims died after the police had already showed up.

As far as panic, from what I read in the news SWAT teams are just as susceptible to making bad calls as anyone else.

Colleges in Utah allow concealed carry and I haven't heard of any mayhem out there.
As I mentioned above, I just hope that there are screening and training programs opportunities in place for those folks who carry firearms. While I agree ownership of firearms is a right, it also invokes a responsibility in those who carry them.

From the posts I've read on WB, the superior majority of gun owners here are responsible but, that doesn't speak to the population on the whole (now that is a scary thought! :D). As I mentioned in my first post, I'm just thinking about young kids, with guns during a stressful period of their lives.

Hell, maybe I'm just a 43 year old curmudgeon and things have changed since my college days. That and the fact I went to college in NYC where very few of had owned, let alone carried firearms.

Good. More natural selection. If you're too slow to duck, oh well! :icon_mrgr
Could be a new category for the Darwin Awards! :D
 
Jul 13, 2006
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Arkansas
#21
Not a scaredy cat and I see from your profile that your 24, you're mature than say a 18 or 19 year old and you have taken the various course work to have your permit AND, trust me I wish I had the option to do that here in NYC but, my concern revolve around the differing state laws. I don't know how the laws differ between AZ and AR but I would hope that AZ has existing laws in place to screen and train those who carry firearms.
I was 21 when I got my CHL and I was a junior in college. I still carried the pistol in my truck and a time or two I accidentally left it on me and realized that I was carrying my .45ACP in a "Gun Free" zone. And no one got hurt.

"Gun Free" zones are such bullshit.

Also, in Arizona you don't need to hav a license to carry a firearm. It's an open-carry state so you just have to be 21 to carry a pistol on your hip, like it should be in all of the country. However they don't allow concealed carry without licensing. I don't understand what the big deal is though since they allow you to open carry anyway.
 

Budyzir

There's nothing quite like a shorn scrotum.
Nov 12, 2004
7,307
1
0
Queens, NY
#22
"Gun Free" zones are such bullshit.
Abso-freaking-lutly!

Also, in Arizona you don't need to have a license to carry a firearm. It's an open-carry state so you just have to be 21 to carry a pistol on your hip, like it should be in all of the country.
Hell yes. When I lived in FL I bought mt Colt 45 at a firearm show. I believe it was a seven day waiting period for a background check. I have no problem with that. The next Saturday the dealer was in my house and I was firing the pistol that afternoon.

NYC gun laws suck!
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
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#23
Lets put this simply.
This chick rules. More guns=more gooder.