Switzerland: Europe's beacon of light OR I Love The Way the Swiss Think!

Kris_LTRMa

LoseTheRadio.net's Ma
Nov 17, 2006
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I Love The Way the Swiss Think!

Swiss Deportation Policy Draws Criticism
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/swiss-deportation-policy-draws-criticism/n20070901081809990005

By FRANK JORDANS,
AP
Posted: 2007-09-01 08:18:03
GENEVA (AP) - The campaign poster was blatant in its xenophobic symbolism: Three white sheep kicking out a black sheep over a caption that read "for more security." The message was not from a fringe force in Switzerland's political scene but from its largest party.

The nationalist Swiss People's Party is proposing a deportation policy that anti-racism campaigners say evokes Nazi-era practices. Under the plan, entire families would be expelled if their children are convicted of a violent crime, drug offenses or benefits fraud.

The party is trying to collect the 100,000 signatures needed to force a referendum on the issue. If approved in a referendum, the law would be the only one of its kind in Europe.

"We believe that parents are responsible for bringing up their children. If they can't do it properly, they will have to bear the consequences," Ueli Maurer, president of the People's Party, told The Associated Press.

Ronnie Bernheim of the Swiss Foundation against Racism and Anti-Semitism said the proposal was similar to the Nazi practice of "Sippenhaft" - or kin liability - whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for his or her crimes and punished equally.

Similar practices occurred during Stalin's purges in the early days of the Soviet Union and the 1966-76 Cultural Revolution in China, when millions were persecuted for their alleged ideological failings.

"As soon as the first 10 families and their children have been expelled from the country, then things will get better at a stroke," said Maurer, whose party controls the Justice Ministry and shares power in an unwieldy coalition that includes all major parties.

He explained that his party has long campaigned to make deportation compulsory for convicted immigrants rather than an optional and rarely applied punishment.

The party claims foreigners - who make up about 20 percent of the population - are four times more likely to commit crimes than Swiss nationals.

Bernheim said the vast majority of Switzerland's immigrants are law-abiding and warned against generalizations.

"If you don't treat a complicated issue with the necessary nuance and care, then you won't do it justice," he said.

Commentators have expressed horror over the symbolism used by the People's Party to make its point.

"This way of thinking shows an obvious blood-and-soil mentality," read one editorial in the Zurich daily Tages-Anzeiger, calling for a broader public reaction against the campaign.

So far, however, there has been little popular backlash against the posters.

"We haven't had any complaints," said Maurer.

The city of Geneva - home to Switzerland's humanitarian traditions as well as the European headquarters of the United Nations and the U.N. Refugee Agency, or UNHCR - said the campaign was likely to stir up intolerance.

The UNHCR said the law would run contrary to the U.N. refugee convention, of which Switzerland is a signatory.

But observers say the People's Party's hardline stance on immigration could help it in the Oct. 21 national elections. In 2004, the party successfully campaigned for tighter immigration laws using the image of black hands reaching into a pot filled with Swiss passports.

"It's certainly no coincidence that the People's Party launched this initiative before the elections," said Oliver Geden, a political scientist at the Berlin Institute for International and Security Affairs.

He said provocative campaigns such as this had worked well for the party in the past.

"The symbol of the black sheep was clearly intended to have a double meaning. On the one hand there's the familiar idea of the black sheep, but a lot of voters are also going to associate it with the notion of dark-skinned drug dealers," said Geden.

The party also has put forward a proposal to ban the building of minaret towers alongside mosques. And one of its leading figures, Justice Minister Christoph Blocher, said he wants to soften anti-racism laws because they prevent freedom of speech
 

MrAbovePar

En Taro Anthony
Mar 14, 2005
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#2
I always love it when laws designed to curb violent criminals get compared to laws designed to create political prisoners.
 

weakside

He was stupid. I was lucky. I will visit him soon.
Dec 9, 2004
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#3
Three things:

First, I am all for getting rid of political correctness. The truth may hurt at times but is often required for creating positive change. But there isn’t any good reason to have made the sheep black. If you’re going to be racist at least have the balls to say it without trying to be cute.

Second, deporting an entire family for the single act of someone within it is nuts. Why should I pay if my brother is a fuck-up? I shouldn’t have to leave the country.

Third, Switzerland sucks in general. Fuck them and their neutrality. I may disagree with the opinions of other people but I at least respect them for taking a side. Take a stance you pussies. The only thing that kept them from being taken over is the fact that they have nothing of value their except for snow, delicious chocolate, and Yeti monsters.
 
#4
Third, Switzerland sucks in general. Fuck them and their neutrality. I may disagree with the opinions of other people but I at least respect them for taking a side. Take a stance you pussies. The only thing that kept them from being taken over is the fact that they have nothing of value their except for snow, delicious chocolate, and Yeti monsters.
Oh good Lord. Where to start?



Leave my other country of residence alone. ;)
 

MrAbovePar

En Taro Anthony
Mar 14, 2005
13,782
3,176
678
Covington. La
#5
Third, Switzerland sucks in general. Fuck them and their neutrality. I may disagree with the opinions of other people but I at least respect them for taking a side. Take a stance you pussies. The only thing that kept them from being taken over is the fact that they have nothing of value their except for snow, delicious chocolate, and Yeti monsters.
Swiss is okay. It's a pretty nice place actually. Though they had a lot to offer the nazis with their neutrality. What the jews were for all of history, Switzerland was for WW2.
 

Kris_LTRMa

LoseTheRadio.net's Ma
Nov 17, 2006
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My thinking is that by deporting the entire immigrant family, it leaves less of a chance for the criminal family member to sneak back in. We have that a lot here in the U.S., especially among the illegal population. The ones that do get deported sneak back in and are helped by the remaining family members.

If their figures are correct, a small faction of the country - 20% - is made up of immigrants. That small number is alleged to be 4 times more likely to commit a crime than a native born. So why not throw the responsibility of raising your kids back to you? That's what this is trying to do ... it's trying to get parents to take responsibility for their children - who are they hanging out with, where are they going, what time are they coming home, are they getting good grades in school etc etc etc. By having the knowlege that you could be deported if any of your kids fucks up, you're going to do whatever you can to make sure your kids grow up to be responsible adults. What's so hard about that?
 

jackjack

Registered User
May 12, 2007
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#8
But there isn’t any good reason to have made the sheep black. If you’re going to be racist at least have the balls to say it without trying to be cute.
Not true. It is not a racist term, it is a colloquialism that refers to any undesirable element. Some sheep are born black, and only the white wool is saleable, that's how it started.
It was never meant to equate the black sheep to the black man.
It's a coincidence that the undesirable color of a sheep is that of a particular race of humans.
 

Hudson

Supreme Champion!!!!!
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Jan 14, 2002
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#9
Psst Weakside You do know that the Yeti is in Tibet in the Himalayas not the Alps:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll
 

Glenn Dandy

THE ONLY WHITE PRESIDENT LEFT.
Mar 21, 2005
19,758
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#10
bOTTOM LINE IS OTHER COUNTRYS SEE WHAT ONCE WAS A GREAT uNITED sTATES AND WHAT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS HAS TURNED THIS PLACE INTO... AND ARE SMART ENOUGH TO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES WE DID... i THINK ITS A SMART MOVE ON THEIR PART.
 

Longinus

Chair of the National Gyspy Eradication Council
Feb 14, 2007
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#11
Hell yeah it is. Thorw those assclowns out. I like the Swiss a lot better now that they aren't politically neutral.
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
43,689
10,141
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#12
weed is legal and machine gun ownership is encouraged, how can any one hate the swiss, if they want to toss out trouble makers, fuck em,
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
8,171
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#13
I always love it when laws designed to curb violent criminals get compared to laws designed to create political prisoners.
Tell this to everyone who whines about the terrorist shits in Gitmo.
 

weakside

He was stupid. I was lucky. I will visit him soon.
Dec 9, 2004
3,871
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#14
Psst Weakside You do know that the Yeti is in Tibet in the Himalayas not the Alps:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll
Hudson, psst, Yeti aren't real. :action-sm

Lol..Yeah, I know it supposedly originated there but don't they see that snow monster everywhere there are snow and mountains? There is supposedly snowman in the state of Washington as well...

Just kidding about Switzerland by the way, I hear it is actually a beautiful place.
 

d0uche_n0zzle

**Negative_Creep**
Sep 15, 2004
46,940
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#15
weed is legal and machine gun ownership is encouraged, how can any one hate the swiss, if they want to toss out trouble makers, fuck em,
And they want to rid themselves of the colored troublemakers, sounds like paradise.
 

cozzie

head retard
Aug 7, 2005
1,482
1
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Norristown PA
#17
My thinking is that by deporting the entire immigrant family, it leaves less of a chance for the criminal family member to sneak back in. We have that a lot here in the U.S., especially among the illegal population. The ones that do get deported sneak back in and are helped by the remaining family members.

If their figures are correct, a small faction of the country - 20% - is made up of immigrants. That small number is alleged to be 4 times more likely to commit a crime than a native born. So why not throw the responsibility of raising your kids back to you? That's what this is trying to do ... it's trying to get parents to take responsibility for their children - who are they hanging out with, where are they going, what time are they coming home, are they getting good grades in school etc etc etc. By having the knowlege that you could be deported if any of your kids fucks up, you're going to do whatever you can to make sure your kids grow up to be responsible adults. What's so hard about that?




you are correct. parents need to yank the phone out of their ear and put a shoe up the ass of their screwed up , misserable brat!
 

Schmed

I'm a corpse without a soul...
Nov 4, 2002
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#20
weed is legal and machine gun ownership is encouraged, how can any one hate the swiss, if they want to toss out trouble makers, fuck em,
Nothing better than a bit of "Humboldt County" and a HK91 to brighten up your day.
 
Feb 20, 2006
8,646
549
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**** Island
#23
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

Switzerland: Europe's heart of darkness?

Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become Europe's heart of darkness?

By Paul Vallely
Published: 07 September 2007

At first sight, the poster looks like an innocent children's cartoon. Three white sheep stand beside a black sheep. The drawing makes it looks as though the animals are smiling. But then you notice that the three white beasts are standing on the Swiss flag. One of the white sheep is kicking the black one off the flag, with a crafty flick of its back legs.

The poster is, according to the United Nations, the sinister symbol of the rise of a new racism and xenophobia in the heart of one of the world's oldest independent democracies.

A worrying new extremism is on the rise. For the poster – which bears the slogan "For More Security" – is not the work of a fringe neo-Nazi group. It has been conceived – and plastered on to billboards, into newspapers and posted to every home in a direct mailshot – by the Swiss People's Party (the Schweizerische Volkspartei or SVP) which has the largest number of seats in the Swiss parliament and is a member of the country's coalition government.

With a general election due next month, it has launched a twofold campaign which has caused the UN's special rapporteur on racism to ask for an official explanation from the government. The party has launched a campaign to raise the 100,000 signatures necessary to force a referendum to reintroduce into the penal code a measure to allow judges to deport foreigners who commit serious crimes once they have served their jail sentence.

But far more dramatically, it has announced its intention to lay before parliament a law allowing the entire family of a criminal under the age of 18 to be deported as soon as sentence is passed.

It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally.

The proposal will be a test case not just for Switzerland but for the whole of Europe, where a division between liberal multiculturalism and a conservative isolationism is opening up in political discourse in many countries, the UK included.

SWISS TRAINS being the acme of punctuality, the appointment was very precise. I was to meet Dr Ulrich Schlüer – one of the men behind the draconian proposal – in the restaurant at the main railway station in Zürich at 7.10pm. As I made my way through the concourse, I wondered what Dr Schlüer made of this station of hyper-efficiency and cleanliness that has a smiling Somali girl selling pickled herring sandwiches, a north African man sweeping the floor, and a black nanny speaking in broken English to her young Swiss charge. The Swiss People's Party's attitude to foreigners is, shall we say, ambivalent.

A quarter of Switzerland's workers – one in four, like the black sheep in the poster – are now foreign immigrants to this peaceful, prosperous and stable economy with low unemployment and a per capita GDP larger than that of other Western economies. Zürich has, for the past two years, been named as the city with the best quality of life in the world.

What did the nanny think of the sheep poster, I asked her. "I'm a guest in this country," she replied. "It's best I don't say."

Dr Schlüer is a small affable man. But if he speaks softly he wields a big stick. The statistics are clear, he said, foreigners are four times more likely to commit crimes than Swiss nationals. "In a suburb of Zürich, a group of youths between 14 and 18 recently ***** a 13-year-old girl," he said. "It turned out that all of them were already under investigation for some previous offence.

They were all foreigners from the Balkans or Turkey. Their parents said these boys are out of control. We say: 'That's not acceptable. It's your job to control them and if you can't do that you'll have to leave'. It's a punishment everyone understands."

It is far from the party's only controversial idea. Dr Schlüer has launched a campaign for a referendum to ban the building of Muslim minarets. In 2004, the party successfully campaigned for tighter immigration laws using the image of black hands reaching into a pot filled with Swiss passports. And its leading figure, the Justice Minister, Christoph Blocher, has said he wants to soften anti-racism laws because they prevent freedom of speech.

Political opponents say it is all posturing ahead of next month's general election. Though deportation has been dropped from the penal code, it is still in force in administrative law, says Daniel Jositsch, professor of penal law at Zurich University. "At the end of the day, nothing has changed, the criminal is still at the airport and on the plane."

With astute tactics, the SVP referendum restricts itself to symbolic restitution. Its plan to deport entire families has been put forward in parliament where it has little chance of being passed. Still the publicity dividend is the same. And it is all so worrying to human rights campaigners that the UN special rapporteur on racism, Doudou Diène, warned earlier this year that a "racist and xenophobic dynamic" which used to be the province of the far right is now becoming a regular part of the democratic system in Switzerland.

Dr Schlüer shrugged. "He's from Senegal where they have a lot of problems of their own which need to be solved. I don't know why he comes here instead of getting on with that."

Such remarks only confirm the opinions of his opponents. Mario Fehr is a Social Democrat MP for the Zürich area. He says: "Deporting people who have committed no crime is not just unjust and inhumane, it's stupid. Three quarters of the Swiss people think that foreigners who work here are helping the economy. We have a lot of qualified workers – IT specialists, doctors, dentists." To get rid of foreigners, which opponents suspect is the SVP's real agenda, "would be an economic disaster".

Dr Schlüer insists the SVP is not against all foreigners. "Until war broke out in the Balkans, we had some good workers who came from Yugoslavia. But after the fighting there was huge influx of people we had a lot of problems with. The abuse of social security is a key problem. It's estimated to cost £750m a year. More than 50 per cent of it is by foreigners."

There is no disguising his suspicion of Islam. He has alarmed many of Switzerland's Muslims (some 4.3 per cent of the 7.5 million population) with his campaign to ban the minaret. "We're not against mosques but the minaret is not mentioned in the Koran or other important Islamic texts. It just symbolises a place where Islamic law is established." And Islamic law, he says, is incompatible with Switzerland's legal system.

To date there are only two mosques in the country with minarets but planners are turning down applications for more, after opinion polls showed almost half the population favours a ban. What is at stake here in Switzerland is not merely a dislike of foreigners or a distrust of Islam but something far more fundamental. It is a clash that goes to the heart of an identity crisis which is there throughout Europe and the US. It is about how we live in a world that has changed radically since the end of the Cold War with the growth of a globalised economy, increased immigration flows, the rise of Islam as an international force and the terrorism of 9/11. Switzerland only illustrates it more graphically than elsewhere.

Switzerland is so stark an example because of the complex web of influences that find their expression in Ulrich Schlüer and his party colleagues.
He is fiercely proud of his nation's independence, which can be traced back to a defensive alliance of cantons in 1291. He is a staunch defender of its policy of armed neutrality, under which Switzerland has no standing army but all young men are trained and on standby; they call it the porcupine approach – with millions of individuals ready to stiffen like spines if the nation is threatened.

Linked to that is its system of direct democracy where many key decisions on tax, education, health and other key areas are taken at local level.

"How direct democracy functions is a very sensitive issue in Switzerland," he says, explaining why he has long opposed joining the EU. "To the average German, the transfer of power from Berlin to Brussels didn't really affect their daily lives. The transfer of power from the commune to Brussels would seriously change things for the ordinary Swiss citizen."

Switzerland has the toughest naturalisation rules in Europe. To apply, you must live in the country legally for at least 12 years, pay taxes, and have no criminal record. The application can still be turned down by your local commune which meets to ask "Can you speak German? Do you work? Are you integrated with Swiss people?"

It can also ask, as one commune did of 23-year-old Fatma Karademir – who was born in Switzerland but who under Swiss law is Turkish like her parents – if she knew the words of the Swiss national anthem, if she could imagine marrying a Swiss boy and who she would support if the Swiss football team played Turkey. "Those kinds of questions are outside the law," says Mario Fehr. "But in some more remote villages you have a problem if you're from ex-Yugoslavia."

The federal government in Berne wants to take the decision out of the hands of local communities, one of which only gave the vote to women as recently as 1990. But the government's proposals have twice been defeated in referendums.

The big unspoken fact here is how a citizen is to be defined. "When a Swiss woman who has emigrated to Canada has a baby, that child automatically gets citizenship," Dr Schlüer says. But in what sense is a boy born in Canada, who may be brought up with an entirely different world view and set of values, more Swiss than someone like Fatma Karademir who has never lived anywhere but Switzerland?

The truth is that at the heart of the Swiss People's Party's vision is a visceral notion of kinship, breeding and blood that liberals would like to think sits very much at odds with the received wisdom of most of the Western world. It is what lies behind the SVP's fear of even moderate Islam. It has warned that because of their higher birth rates Muslims would eventually become a majority in Switzerland if the citizenship rules were eased. It is what lies behind his fierce support for the militia system.

To those who say that Germany, France, Italy and Austria are nowadays unlikely to invade, he invokes again the shadow of militant Islam. "The character of war is changing. There could be riots or eruptions in a town anywhere in Switzerland. There could be terrorism in a financial centre."
The race issue goes wider than politics in a tiny nation. "I'm broadly optimistic that the tide is moving in our direction both here and in other countries across Europe, said Dr Schlüer. "I feel more supported than criticised from outside."

The drama which is being played out in such direct politically incorrect language in Switzerland is one which has repercussions all across Europe, and wider.

Neutrality and nationality

* Switzerland has four national languages – German, Italian, French and Romansh. Most Swiss residents speak German as their first language.

* Switzerland's population has grown from 1.7 million in 1815 to 7.5 million in 2006. The population has risen by 750,000 since 1990.

* Swiss nationality law demands that candidates for Swiss naturalisation spend a minimum of years of permanent, legal residence in Switzerland, and gain fluency in one of the national languages.

* More than 20 per cent of the Swiss population, and 25 per cent of its workforce, is non-naturalised.

* At the end of 2006, 5,888 people we
re interned in Swiss prisons. 31 per cent were Swiss citizens – 69 per cent were foreigners or asylum-seekers.

* The number of unauthorised migrant workers currently employed is estimated at 100,000.
 

weakside

He was stupid. I was lucky. I will visit him soon.
Dec 9, 2004
3,871
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California
#25
Not true. It is not a racist term, it is a colloquialism that refers to any undesirable element. Some sheep are born black, and only the white wool is saleable, that's how it started.
It was never meant to equate the black sheep to the black man.
It's a coincidence that the undesirable color of a sheep is that of a particular race of humans.
I have a fairly good eye for sarcasm on message boards yet I detect none of that in this post. So either you actually believe this or you are quite the spin-doctor.

Even the few complete racists on this board would not agree with you (though they would love the message…lol). The black sheep represents a black man, period.