Teacher fired for telling it like it is...

caniseeyourtaint

Passive agressive douche
Feb 26, 2004
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#1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297847,00.html

An Iowa college professor claims he was fired over the phone after he called the story of Adam and Eve a "fairy tale," the Des Moines Register reports.

Steve Bitterman, 60, a Southwestern Community College instructor who told his students that the biblical story should not be literally interpreted, says school officials sided with students who threatened legal action over the remarks.

Click here to read full story in the Des Moines Register.

School officials declined to comment on Bitterman’s employment status, but the president, Barbara Crittenden, said: "There was no action taken that violated the First Amendment."

The students claim the lesson was "denigrating their religion."


Believe what you will...this is not an offense calling for termination. He should have gotten a raise.
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
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#2
Why? Teachers are paid to teach, not provide editorial opinions concerning religion.

I don't think he should have gotten fired over this, but really is NOT his place to be denigrating people's religions and labeling religious beliefs as "fairy tales."
 

seeinred

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Apr 29, 2007
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#3
Why? Teachers are paid to teach, not provide editorial opinions concerning religion.

I don't think he should have gotten fired over this, but really is NOT his place to be denigrating people's religions and labeling religious beliefs as "fairy tales."
Well said, x2, and QFT.
 

Glenn Dandy

THE ONLY WHITE PRESIDENT LEFT.
Mar 21, 2005
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#4
hippy teachers sit and drone on about anti war crap.... whats the fuckin difference?


War is my religeon.
 

HummerTuesdays

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Apr 24, 2005
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#5
Why? Teachers are paid to teach, not provide editorial opinions concerning religion.

I don't think he should have gotten fired over this, but really is NOT his place to be denigrating people's religions and labeling religious beliefs as "fairy tales."
While I also agree, we have to keep in mind: What course was he teaching? In what context was that said?

This very well could be a bunch of dumb fucks claiming something that is not correct. Yes, the professor may have said it, but it might have a totally different connotation if we heard it in context.
 

seeinred

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#6
While I also agree, we have to keep in mind: What course was he teaching? In what context was that said?

This very well could be a bunch of dumb fucks claiming something that is not correct. Yes, the professor may have said it, but it might have a totally different connotation if we heard it in context.
Regardless, the students/school overreacted BIG TIME. What ever happened to letting things roll off of you? People are going to take jabs at your religion, no matter what it is, and you should be able to deal with that.
 

HummerTuesdays

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#7
Regardless, the students/school overreacted BIG TIME. What ever happened to letting things roll off of you? People are going to take jabs at your religion, no matter what it is, and you should be able to deal with that.
If I'm in a math class, or phys ed, or biology, or whatever other crappy classes I have to take...there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for the teacher to be discussing religion. In poli sci *maybe* depending on what's being covered. In a religion class what he said is open for discussion.

Especially since this is a community college, and since they receive government funding, they need to keep the separation of church & state. Unless they're teaching courses in theology.
 

Sinn Fein

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#9
Why? Teachers are paid to teach, not provide editorial opinions concerning religion.

I don't think he should have gotten fired over this, but really is NOT his place to be denigrating people's religions and labeling religious beliefs as "fairy tales."
Well said, x2, and QFT.
X3
 

TheDrip

I'm bi-winning.
Jan 9, 2006
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#10
school officials sided with students who threatened legal action over the remarks.
Legal action? Give me a fucking break. What grounds would they sue on. Legal expert baggers, help me out here.

On a side note, I'd love to see who would try to prove that Adam and Eve is NOT a fairy tale. Love to see the evidence offered up there. Sort of like Noah's Ark. In order to make an Arc that would be required to do what the story says it would have unbelievably larger than any water craft ever concocted in history.
 

Vyce

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#11
If I'm in a math class, or phys ed, or biology, or whatever other crappy classes I have to take...there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for the teacher to be discussing religion. In poli sci *maybe* depending on what's being covered. In a religion class what he said is open for discussion.

Especially since this is a community college, and since they receive government funding, they need to keep the separation of church & state. Unless they're teaching courses in theology.
I agree, and well put.

I mean, I get what you're saying seeinred. In most situations, if someone shits on your religious beliefs, it might be best to just let it slide, because you are going to encounter people who don't believe the same way you do, and you need to be able to handle it with civility.

But you should not have to take that sort of thing from a teacher. It's highly inappropriate. A teacher shouldn't be there advocating for or against any religion, unless you're literally attending a parochial school.
 

MJMANDALAY

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Jan 26, 2005
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#12
Gets fired for telling the truth WTF thats bullshit.
 

Mommadeez4u

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Mar 26, 2005
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#13
from the story:

Bitterman said he called the story of Adam and Eve a "fairy tale" in a conversation with a student after the class and was told the students had threatened to see an attorney. He declined to identify any of the students in the class.
 

seeinred

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#14
If I'm in a math class, or phys ed, or biology, or whatever other crappy classes I have to take...there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for the teacher to be discussing religion. In poli sci *maybe* depending on what's being covered. In a religion class what he said is open for discussion.

Especially since this is a community college, and since they receive government funding, they need to keep the separation of church & state. Unless they're teaching courses in theology.
I agree, and well put.

I mean, I get what you're saying seeinred. In most situations, if someone shits on your religious beliefs, it might be best to just let it slide, because you are going to encounter people who don't believe the same way you do, and you need to be able to handle it with civility.

But you should not have to take that sort of thing from a teacher. It's highly inappropriate. A teacher shouldn't be there advocating for or against any religion, unless you're literally attending a parochial school.

If I came across as disagreeing with what you guys were saying, I didn't mean to. The guy is stupid for doing it, and the point about it being government funded is an excellent one. It was on more of a side note I mentioned letting things slide. I just think people get fired waaaaay too easily these days.
 

d0uche_n0zzle

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Sep 15, 2004
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#15
from the story:

Bitterman said he called the story of Adam and Eve a "fairy tale" in a conversation with a student after the class and was told the students had threatened to see an attorney. He declined to identify any of the students in the class.
So much for that First Amendment with all these rat fucks running aboot.
 

d0uche_n0zzle

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#17
It wasn't a classroom lesson, IMO. It was private conversation, thus then, protected speech, maaan.
 

Zona992006

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Jan 26, 2007
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#19
Originally Posted by Mommadeez4u
from the story:

Bitterman said he called the story of Adam and Eve a "fairy tale" in a conversation with a student after the class and was told the students had threatened to see an attorney. He declined to identify any of the students in the class.

So much for that First Amendment with all these rat fucks running aboot.
If he had a conversation with a student after class, I guess he had to have said, "In my opinion, and my opinion does not reflect the schools policy on church and state issues or their opinion on Religion" ????

The school should have suggested to him not to ever bring this type of stuff again, not get fired.
 

TheDrip

I'm bi-winning.
Jan 9, 2006
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#20
Looks like it's time to start banning teachers from discussing anything outside of the class curriculum with their students whether in class or out of class.

God forbid some poor adult gets their feelings hurt.



This whole situation stinks to high hell.
 

THE FEZ MAN

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#21
were fucking doomed
 

Creasy Bear

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#22
So these Christians are so insecure in their silly beliefs, that they have to fire a person for daring to state his opinion about one of their (many) silly pseudo-historical fantasies?

Pa-fucking-thetic. :icon_roll

The students claim the lesson was "denigrating their religion."
So... which subject was he teaching- Physics? Earth Science? Geology? History? Biology?

Take your pick... they all demonstrate that literal biblical interpretation is a crock of shit.

If he had said...

"The Earth is a coupla billion years old."


Those hayseed dipshits would have taken that as their, "...religion being denigrated." Because every toothless bible-thumping rube knows that... "The Earf ain't no more 'n six thousand years old, and my grandpappy weren't condescended from no monkeys!"

These people are clueless. They are offended by fundamental facts of nature. It is cowardly and wrong to even attempt to respect their ignorance by censoring BASIC FACTS OF REALITY from your everyday, casual conversations just so they can remain blissfully pig ignorant.

Fuck these clownshoes, and fuck their fairytales.
 

Southpaw

Registered User
Jan 12, 2005
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#23
Maybe this was a biology instructor trying to teach about the evolution of Homo Sapiens and found it necessary to resist a demand to reconcile science with Genesis.

Perhaps the same issue was being discussed in a Philosophy class on critical thinking or Theism & Atheism.

Or what about a political science professor discussing public policy issues like prayer in school, or the teaching of evolution.

Along the same lines, it could have come up as an American history professor discussed the Scopes trial...

etc.


The teachers I most liked and admired were the ones that inspired me to challenge my beliefs and prejudices or to argue from a side I wasn't used to.
I don't know how else you train citizens to be capable of self rule.

And I don't see how a government funded community college violates the establishment of religion clause by having classes on theology or comparative religion, etc that are necessary to learning about history or contemporary issues. It's simply not a matter of seperation of Church and State, not even close. Anyone who thinks publically funded institutions shouldn't have such a mandate are really arguing that the people that attend shouldn't receive a minimally decent education.
 

seeinred

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#25
If he had a conversation with a student after class, I guess he had to have said, "In my opinion, and my opinion does not reflect the schools policy on church and state issues or their opinion on Religion" ????

The school should have suggested to him not to ever bring this type of stuff again, not get fired.
Agreed, the school should have told him not to do it just to cover both their asses in the future. But I do think that if a teacher is on school grounds talking to a student, he's responsible to the school for his words and actions. In this case too responsible, it seems.