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U.S. Alleges Full Tilt Poker was a Ponzi Scheme.

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by DanaReevesLungs, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. DanaReevesLungs

    DanaReevesLungs I can keep rhythm with no metronome...
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    Link
     
  2. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    Ponzi scheme? Are they fucking joking?

    Look, I know Chris Ferguson, and besides being one of the nicest guys in the world, he's also a math genius. There's no way anything they're alleging went on with his knowledge... Though I will say Howard had more to do with the inner-workings of Full Tilt than Chris did.
     
  3. mascan42

    mascan42 Registered User

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    At FTP, player's money was held in the same accounts as the company's operating capital, rather than in separate accounts like the other poker sites did. Whether that means the player's money was actually used as operating capital is unclear, but it sure as hell makes it look suspicious. This is also why US players still haven't been able to withdraw their funds: when the gov't froze the company's accounts, they froze the player's money as well.
     
  4. ShooterMcGavin

    ShooterMcGavin Go back to your shanties.

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    Does this mean that every fucking asshole I see at the Indian casinos wearing Full Tilt hats are victims of this horrible scam?
     
  5. Creasy Bear

    Creasy Bear gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
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    I'm sure it's all just a big misunderstanding.

    :icon_roll

    Dupes.
     
  6. MayrMeninoCrash

    MayrMeninoCrash Liberal Psycopath

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    Doesn't Ponzi Scheme relate to investing? These people aren't (or shouldn't be) depositing their money with hopes of an annual growth, like a bank account. What these guys did was wrong, but it sounds like racketeering and money laundering, but no different than any of your Teamster-run casinos on the 60's and 70's.
     
  7. mills

    mills I'll give em a state, a state of unconsciousness

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    Is a dupe anything like a rube?

    What do these dupes have to do with carnies.
     
  8. ShooterMcGavin

    ShooterMcGavin Go back to your shanties.

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    Are they any relation to sheeple?
     
  9. Creasy Bear

    Creasy Bear gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
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    Dupes are more like marks and rubes are more yokels, but carnies will run the game on both.

    Never trust a carnie... small hands.
     
  10. mills

    mills I'll give em a state, a state of unconsciousness

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    Where do asshole gambler assholes who gamble because they're assholes fit in?
     
  11. English Gent

    English Gent Registered User

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    Well, that does seem to be a rather unusual arrangement, that's for sure, and probably not best practice, but fraud? And Ponzi Scheme? Really? Presumably the allegation is that FTP didn't have sufficient funds on hand at any given time to pay out the totality of funds in player accounts, but is that any different from the way that every high street bank operates?
     
  12. Creasy Bear

    Creasy Bear gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
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    They're left scratching their heads in bewilderment and asking ... If you can't trust the proprietors of online gambling businesses, who can you trust?
     
  13. Creasy Bear

    Creasy Bear gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
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    They're left scratching their heads in bewilderment and asking ... If you can't trust the proprietors of online gambling businesses, who can you trust?
     
  14. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    From reading up on this it sounds like the DOJ is just covering their own asses.

    So what if FTP co-mingled funds as long as they always had enough to cover outstanding accounts? When the DOJ swooped in and locked the accounts, they essentially stole the money from the individuals who had placed it there, but instead of admitting that, they're trying to make it sound like FTP's fault.
     
  15. mills

    mills I'll give em a state, a state of unconsciousness

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    Mexicans.
     
  16. UrsusHorribilis

    UrsusHorribilis Registered User

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    wdjkawdhki?
     
  17. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    I'm sure it has something to do with Israel, right?
     
  18. Norm Stansfield

    Norm Stansfield 私は亀が好きだ。

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    Those aren't the allegations. Here are the allegations:
    The inner workings of fractional reserve banking are not misrepresented. They are public knowledge.
     
  19. sillyfuck

    sillyfuck Wackbag Uncle Tom

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    I blame MLC
     
  20. English Gent

    English Gent Registered User

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    It does mean a specific form of fraudulent investment scheme, but it also gets thrown around as quite a loose term. My assumption from the little that's been said publicly is that one of the central allegations is that they hadn't segregated funds and didn't always have on hand sufficient funds to pay out customers. Still doesn't really make it a Ponzi Scheme, but anyway.
     
  21. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    I can understand the whole "not having enough funds to pay out" angle, but why doesn't that apply to all cases? Why is it alright for airlines to sell out 110% of a flight because they know statistically 15% won't show? I don't understand why when it comes to things like this there has to be 100% liquidity when in NO OTHER industry that applies.

    Edit: None of this applies to the story, just annoyed by the double standard.
     
  22. Your_Moms_Box

    Your_Moms_Box Free Shit / Socialism 2016

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    If FTP disclosed that they co-mingled fnds then there isn't an issue.

    If they said that customer money was seperate from operating funds, and it wasn't then they have essentially comitted fruad.

    A Ponzi sceme is really any sceme where the money from new clients is needed to pay out clients who believe they have earned a return.

    The analogy isn't perfect here, but I can see where it can be implied.
     
  23. Don the Radio Guy

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    I don't know about the inside workings of this particular website, but the government saying ANYTHING is a Ponzi scheme is a fucking hoot.
     
  24. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    I understand the concept, I'm just saying that every industry and financial institution does this, and for some reason gambling institutions are the only ones held to the higher standard. If every customer of Bank of America went and closed their accounts at once, there's no way in hell they'd be able to cover all of the withdrawls, same with the airline analogy, and countless others.

    To apply the concepts of a Ponzi scheme to this is a stretch at best, and like I said earlier, it's more than likely just a smoke-screen to cover the fact that the DOJ is the reason those player accounts aren't being refunded.
     
  25. UrsusHorribilis

    UrsusHorribilis Registered User

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    I've stayed out of that argument for awhile and intend to in the future (although it's fun watching Obama squirm over this UN statehood thing!)

    I was making a lame joke combining WWJD? (What would Jesus do?), Chris Ferguson's nickname and the famous question from the Watergate hearings: "What did the President know and when did he know it?

    If you have to explain, it ain't funny...
     

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