United States giving Israel $30 billion which in turn goes to arms manufacturers

UCFGavin

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Feb 25, 2006
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http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/894255.html


Israel and the United States signed Thursday the Memorandum of Understanding on the new American defense package for Israel. Under the new aid agreement, the U.S. will transfer $30 billion to Israel over 10 years, compared with $24 billion over the past decade.

Israel is slated to receive the first pay out in October 2008, amounting to $2.550 billion. That sum will grow each year by $150 million, until it reaches $3.1 billion in 2011.

In addition, the agreement permits Israel to convert into shekels 26.3 percent of the aid money, thereby enabling it to procure defense equipment from Israeli companies. The rest of the aid must be used to purchase equipment from American military industries.

Israeli negotiators tried to step up the percentage of aid that could be used for procurement from local companies, without success.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert met Wednesday with visiting U.S. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs R. Nicholas Burns, in preparation for Thursday's signing.

Olmert asked Burns to thank U.S. President George W. Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice for their efforts in transforming the understandings with Olmert, reached during his last visit to Washington, into a binding agreement.

"The aid agreement with the U.S. is an important and significant component for Israel, and proves once again the depth of the relationship between the two countries and the United States' commitment to Israel's security, and to preserving its qualitative advantage over other countries in the Middle East," Olmert said.


Burns met Thursday morning with Bank of Israel Governor Stanley Fischer, who headed the Israeli team in negotiations with the U.S.

At noon, Burns signed the aid agreement with Foreign Ministry Director General Aharon Abramovich, and meet with Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni.

Burns also met Wednesday with Transportation Minister Shaul Mofaz, who oversees the strategic dialogue with the U.S. Mofaz and Burns agreed to hold a strategic dialogue in mid-October on Iran and Lebanon.

seriously....what the fuck? i understand that companies like Lockheed Martin provide a lot of jobs for a lot of people....but this is basically taking taxpayer money and putting it directly into their pockets.
 

mendozathejew

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Mar 12, 2005
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#2
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/894255.html





seriously....what the fuck? i understand that companies like Lockheed Martin provide a lot of jobs for a lot of people....but this is basically taking taxpayer money and putting it directly into their pockets.
its basically coupons for Israel to use at american corporations. they get a ton of aid from the US, but it has to be spent in the US

if you want to know what other benefits the US gets from this, you can look at Larz's comments on the many joint US-Israel military and intel operations regarding Iraq, Iran, Somalia among other countries
 

UCFGavin

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Feb 25, 2006
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#3
its basically coupons for Israel to use at american corporations. they get a ton of aid from the US, but it has to be spent in the US

if you want to know what other benefits the US gets from this, you can look at Larz's comments on the many joint US-Israel military and intel operations regarding Iraq, Iran, Somalia among other countries
so basically just feeding more to the...and i hate using cliche terms...but the "military industrial complex"?
 

mendozathejew

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#4
so basically just feeding more to the...and i hate using cliche terms...but the "military industrial complex"?
would you rather the US encourage Israel to purchase arms from france or russia? I realize this whole issue raises alarm signals for alot of people and I understand that, its reasonable. but alot of factors go into this.

and besides from the US and Israeli militaries working together ALOT, they do share military technology and inventions, which Israel is particularly good at. ofcourse it all feeds the military industrial complex but whats the alternative?
 

abudabit

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Oct 10, 2004
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#5
It is still economically a drain. If it is needed for security reasons fine, but let's not pretend it's economically a good thing.
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
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#7
It is still economically a drain. If it is needed for security reasons fine, but let's not pretend it's economically a good thing.
The military arms producers deal in weapons of war so its not very pretty, but they employ a lot of people and that helps the economy.

Example 30 bil goes to Israel and 22.5 bil has to be spent on US arms. That means the company (or companies) can count on 22.5 bil in orders. So each company will need x amount of workers at lets say 50,000 or 75,000 a year or what have you. All of those workers live and spend their bucks in....America. So of course this helps the US economy.

It isnt a straight sale from Israel, so yeah it is a subsidy. But no different than what the government does for a number of other sectors, airlines, agriculture, etc. And also the alternative is that Israel goes to Russia or France to get their arms, like Mendoza says (they already bought from the UK, France, and alot of others places in the 50s and 60s), and then the arms manufacturers have to lay off a heap of people. Thats for sure is bad for the economy no?

Here's a fact. Israel will buy arms from somewhere. American wants to sell arms. Better the business stay in the USA than have it go elsewhere, even if it is subsidized.
 
Aug 11, 2005
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#8
but they need that cash to setup shop for the antichrist dont they?
 
Feb 20, 2006
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#10
This is one area I don't mind our tax dollars going to. Any ally that helps keep the savages in check should have our support. Plus, as mentioned earlier they are buying our weapons to accomplish this goal.
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
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#12
Allah will not be happy.
If my tax dollars are ultimately goind to be used to kill a fucking Hamas or Hezbollah terrorist, I consider that a better use of the money than paying nearly a million bucks for a fucking lock washer.

I have no problem spending this money on Israel.

The Saudi Arabia deal, though, is a different story.
 

Larz

****Self-Banned****
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Feb 12, 2006
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#13
so basically just feeding more to the...and i hate using cliche terms...but the "military industrial complex"?
More like buying help in the 1 area that the U.S. is lacking... military intelligence on the ground.

The U.S. is great at large scale operations, but tends to be weak when it comes to dealing with human intel, guerilla warfare, language barriers, civil affairs, and exploiting factional differences. These are all things that Israelis are masters of since they've been fighting this type of war with Arabs for the past 60+ years non-stop.

You'll never hear about the extent to which the Israelis are working with the U.S. in Iraq and other places because the Arabs would go batshit insane.
 

Schmed

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Nov 4, 2002
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#14
on no doubt it sucks. the alternatives are only worse
I said it before, and I'll say it again, Israel is our ONLY true ally in the middle east. So much in terms of Pharma (i.e. Teva Neuroscience), Technology (in-situ Oil Shale extraction) and many other exciting technological advances have come out of that tiny country that is surrounded by a huge Islamic-fascist megalopolis. The US, and all other western nations (no thanks to European nations) must do, "by any means necessary" guarantee the survival of this nation.

And here's another reason:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1186557476375&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
 

UCFGavin

Registered User
Feb 25, 2006
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#15
why are you guys so focused on "allies"? why not worry about our own shit first?
 

d0uche_n0zzle

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Sep 15, 2004
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#16
why are you guys so focused on "allies"? why not worry about our own shit first?
If we didn't "need" all that oil, we wouldn't waste one thin dime there. But, seeing that's not the case, we need our friends there. And being that Israel is surrounded by savages and still has manged to survive and thrive is a feat in itself.
 
Feb 20, 2006
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#17
If we didn't "need" all that oil, we wouldn't waste one thin dime there. But, seeing that's not the case, we need our friends there. And being that Israel is surrounded by savages and still has manged to survive and thrive is a feat in itself.



QFT. You can only isolate so much. Better to use proxies like Israel.
 

UCFGavin

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Feb 25, 2006
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#18
If we didn't "need" all that oil, we wouldn't waste one thin dime there. But, seeing that's not the case, we need our friends there. And being that Israel is surrounded by savages and still has manged to survive and thrive is a feat in itself.
you mean the same oil that has made our gas prices skyrocket since we've been there? and yes, israel has done a great job taking care of herself...just like she could do again if she was threatened. we don't need to butt our noses in.
 

mikedirt

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Nov 17, 2003
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#19
would you rather the US encourage Israel to purchase arms from france or russia?
Encourage them to buy our weapons? How about we're buying them from ourselves?? We're giving them money to buy our stuff? WTF? Why can't they spend their own money to finance their military?
 

mendozathejew

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Mar 12, 2005
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#20
Encourage them to buy our weapons? How about we're buying them from ourselves?? We're giving them money to buy our stuff? WTF? Why can't they spend their own money to finance their military?
its only a country of 5 million surrounded by massively populated enemies. did you see how much the US gives them? theres no way they can produce that themselves. meanwhile their enemies are oil rich countries.

we could cut them off, but the two countries rely on eachother for military and intel cooperation. we give a ton of aid to lots of people, as the saudi arms package showed. we can be isolationists, or support allies. one or the other, and supporting allies, and balancing what they give back is alot more complicated and covert than any of us will understand
 

Vyce

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Feb 11, 2006
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#21
you mean the same oil that has made our gas prices skyrocket since we've been there? and yes, israel has done a great job taking care of herself...just like she could do again if she was threatened. we don't need to butt our noses in.
Uh....they've done a "great job taking care of themselves" precisely because WE, that is, America, has always had their backs by providing them funds and weapons through aid agreements such as this one.

And to answer your earlier question, in supporting Israel we ARE looking after our "own shit." We're in a war against Islam. Many of our enemies are funded by Middle East oil monies from Arab nations. I don't know how many times people have to say in this thread that Israel provides us with valuable support and intelligence in the region for it to sink through that it's in our best interests to keep Israel an ally (besides that whole little thing about them being a democracy in a region full of dictators and zealous theocracies).

God damn. Fuck you, Ron Paul, for putting this unbelievably assinine idea in people's heads that an isolationist foreign policy is in our best interests.
 

mendozathejew

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Mar 12, 2005
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#22
You'll never hear about the extent to which the Israelis are working with the U.S. in Iraq and other places because the Arabs would go batshit insane.
I think everyone here in the US would be amazed if we knew how much US and Israeli special ops work on together. Ive just met too many americans and israelis who talk about joint training operations theyve been a part of to not believe the type of specifics youve mentioned
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
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#23
why are you guys so focused on "allies"? why not worry about our own shit first?
because you need allies in the world in order to be a thriving superpower. you need allies, client states, proxies, and so on. you cant be isolationist and be a great country. isolationism equals national mediocrity in my opinion, because were not alone on the earth.

thinking back, i cant think of 1 great isolationist nation. sparta was pretty cool i guess. if you are content with that, thats cool, but isolationism doesnt necessarily mean a better state of affairs for America. if you dont believe me check our US foreign policy before WWI. the US was greatly isolationist, yet not better off than it was as a world power after WW2.

i personally dont want to live in a world where the UK, France, Russia, China, Germany, and Japan have more power than the US does. thats exactly what will happen if we suddenly became isolationist, because all of these countries will seek to fill the void we leave and we will be in a totally different (and not necessarily better) world. also our fate will not entirely be in our hands as much as it is now, with us as the dominant force in the world. if we totally withdraw from the world, get ready to be second fiddle to alot of medicore douche countries.
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
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#24
QFT. You can only isolate so much. Better to use proxies like Israel.
absolutely. every country needs to do this to a degree. america does it to israel, israel does it in lebanon supporting certain christian and druze groups...its the nature of diplomacy.
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
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#25
Encourage them to buy our weapons? How about we're buying them from ourselves?? We're giving them money to buy our stuff? WTF? Why can't they spend their own money to finance their military?
its not such a black and white issue. its not as simple as freebies going to israel, theres alot of other things at stake and alot of other things that are changing hands. israel gives the US vital intelligence on many countries we are at war with, or at least not friendly with. US advisors go to israel and learn about our enemies and arab allies. this is important shit.

whats the price of that considering we cant do it ourselves? is it worth 10 bil in weapons (the money of which is spent in the US) to head off the next big terrorist plot? is it worth 20 bil to keep tabs on people who want to destroy us? its not that its israel, you can copy in the same template into whats going on with taiwan and china, or india and pakistan.

finally, for anyone who think that we dont need to be in the middle east, theres no choice until we either find a way to replace all the oil all of us consume on a daily basis, or until we start riding bicycles. because the day we stop giving a fuck about what happens in the middle east and the day we pull out, its the day gas becomes $18 a gallon. if thats what you want, then keep supporting isolationism.