HitW Viewing Thread Post-Porged - Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#1
May the 4th of August be with you! This summer's live outdoor HitW will be The Last Jedi! Grab a cold one and join us!



Speaking of cold, the second feature will be Geostorm, featuring these special effects that were really in a 2017 movie with a $120 million budget that was released in theaters:
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#2
May the 4th of August be with you! This summer's live outdoor HitW will be The Last Jedi! Grab a cold one and join us!



Speaking of cold, the second feature will be Geostorm, featuring these special effects that were really in a 2017 movie with a $120 million budget that was released in theaters:
It's on Netflix!
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#3
May the 4th of August be with you! This summer's live outdoor HitW will be The Last Jedi! Grab a cold one and join us!



Speaking of cold, the second feature will be Geostorm, featuring these special effects that were really in a 2017 movie with a $120 million budget that was released in theaters:
Reading some of Hamill's post TLJ comments, I get the sense he had no idea what Johnson was aiming for. And I think that's mostly Johnson's fault.
 

HandPanzer

Shantih Shantih Shantih
#4
Sweet. Looking forward to this one.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#5
Reading some of Hamill's post TLJ comments, I get the sense he had no idea what Johnson was aiming for. And I think that's mostly Johnson's fault.
I've read/heard dozens of different quotes from Hamill asking some variation of "how did the most optimistic and hopeful person in the galaxy turn into THIS?"



And I think while a lot of that is overblown and perhaps some intentional misdirection from Lucasfilm, it’s really the central question of the movie, and they tried very hard to answer it with the 3 versions of the night Kylo left. I think they did answer it satisfactorily, and I believe Luke has a very good arc in the film.

As you know I don’t take some of the stuff in the movie at face value, and the scene with Luke and Leia is an example of potentially great writing. When Luke visits Leia, he tells her “I can’t save him”, implying to Leia and the movie audience that he’s about to kill Kylo. She says she knows her son is gone, and he tells her “no one is really gone” of course referring to Han and maybe himself if he knew what he was about to do would kill him.

But maybe he meant HE couldn’t save Kylo, but Rey could. And maybe he meant Kylo wasn’t really gone. Maybe. We’ll see in episode 9. But the fun part of the HitW will be comparing the small pieces of potentially great writing with the 3/4 of the movie that is unquestionably terrible writing.
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#6
I've read/heard dozens of different quotes from Hamill asking some variation of "how did the most optimistic and hopeful person in the galaxy turn into THIS?"



And I think while a lot of that is overblown and perhaps some intentional misdirection from Lucasfilm, it’s really the central question of the movie, and they tried very hard to answer it with the 3 versions of the night Kylo left. I think they did answer it satisfactorily, and I believe Luke has a very good arc in the film.

As you know I don’t take some of the stuff in the movie at face value, and the scene with Luke and Leia is an example of potentially great writing. When Luke visits Leia, he tells her “I can’t save him”, implying to Leia and the movie audience that he’s about to kill Kylo. She says she knows her son is gone, and he tells her “no one is really gone” of course referring to Han and maybe himself if he knew what he was about to do would kill him.

But maybe he meant HE couldn’t save Kylo, but Rey could. And maybe he meant Kylo wasn’t really gone. Maybe. We’ll see in episode 9. But the fun part of the HitW will be comparing the small pieces of potentially great writing with the 3/4 of the movie that is unquestionably terrible writing.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't know how much of it is misdirection or not, or how much of it is lies or not, but it's a weird recurring thing every time Hammil comes up. It's a testament to him that if he had no idea what was going on as seems to be his claim, he still gave a stand out performance. Particularly because, like you said, Luke's character and his arc is one of the few things that makes sense in TLJ and the reason why that segment is regularly heralded as the stand out of the movie.

And maybe it's just me, but I never saw Luke as the most optimistic and hopeful person in the galaxy. I mean, maybe he is because it's a shitty galaxy, but it's not a blind happy go lucky faith. Obi-Wan and Yoda recognized the importance of goodness and light, but they had a measured approach to it. They knew when they failed and they exiled themselves. Luke did the same, he felt he failed and wasn't safe to be around other people, so he exiled himself. It was the logical extension of the character, particularly with how the new trilogy was written. The only reason I'd see people having a problem with it is if they view it like "But Luke Skywalker is an action figure. Action figures don't have doubt. They're action figures. They always do good and they always do action. I don't have a blue milk play set! They're ruining my childhood!"

My biggest problem with the character was that his "catharsis" with Kylo Ren was him doing Force stunts to make him look foolish. The point shouldn't have been "come to think of it, Jedis are swell and you're a turd. #Neener."
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#7
I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't know how much of it is misdirection or not, or how much of it is lies or not, but it's a weird recurring thing every time Hammil comes up. It's a testament to him that if he had no idea what was going on as seems to be his claim, he still gave a stand out performance. Particularly because, like you said, Luke's character and his arc is one of the few things that makes sense in TLJ and the reason why that segment is regularly heralded as the stand out of the movie.

And maybe it's just me, but I never saw Luke as the most optimistic and hopeful person in the galaxy. I mean, maybe he is because it's a shitty galaxy, but it's not a blind happy go lucky faith. Obi-Wan and Yoda recognized the importance of goodness and light, but they had a measured approach to it. They knew when they failed and they exiled themselves. Luke did the same, he felt he failed and wasn't safe to be around other people, so he exiled himself. It was the logical extension of the character, particularly with how the new trilogy was written. The only reason I'd see people having a problem with it is if they view it like "But Luke Skywalker is an action figure. Action figures don't have doubt. They're action figures. They always do good and they always do action. I don't have a blue milk play set! They're ruining my childhood!"

My biggest problem with the character was that his "catharsis" with Kylo Ren was him doing Force stunts to make him look foolish. The point shouldn't have been "come to think of it, Jedis are swell and you're a turd. #Neener."
If you really want to dive between the lines of the original trilogy, Luke's optimism and hopefulness come almost entirely from a sense of loneliness and a need to belong to something. Hamill's comments have always struck me as a misinterpretation of Luke's character. It's not like Luke contemplating killing Kylo wasn't the first time his mind had gone to a pretty dark place.

"Optimistic and Hopeful..."

As for taunting Kylo, that was clearly meant to be a callback to Luke taunting the Emperor for his failure to turn him and Obi Wan telling Vader if he struck him down he'd become more powerful, so I had no problem with that.

When I first saw the movie I said I felt nothing at Luke's death and I still don't. But I can't say I ever felt much of anything when Obi Wan died either. Because it never really felt like he was gone. It will be interesting to see what if anything they do with Luke in Episode 9.
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#8
If you really want to dive between the lines of the original trilogy, Luke's optimism and hopefulness come almost entirely from a sense of loneliness and a need to belong to something. Hamill's comments have always struck me as a misinterpretation of Luke's character. It's not like Luke contemplating killing Kylo wasn't the first time his mind had gone to a pretty dark place.

"Optimistic and Hopeful..."

As for taunting Kylo, that was clearly meant to be a callback to Luke taunting the Emperor for his failure to turn him and Obi Wan telling Vader if he struck him down he'd become more powerful, so I had no problem with that.

When I first saw the movie I said I felt nothing at Luke's death and I still don't. But I can't say I ever felt much of anything when Obi Wan died either. Because it never really felt like he was gone. It will be interesting to see what if anything they do with Luke in Episode 9.
I have the same reading of the Luke character. He understood the importance of hope and goodness, but he was not optimistic or idealistic in the way I think Hammil saw him/sees him or that the Action Figure Luke crowd does. He saw the benefits of the light to the dark, but he wasn't a rey of sunshine who had a positive outlook about everything. He was measured in his "goodness," similar to Yoda, similar to Obi-Wan. I wouldn't consider Obi-Wan as some beacon of light, but he saw the value of goodness over evil. An appreciation of the interconnectedness of the universe, rather than trying to corrupt it in a Sith way. That's how I always read the 'Jedi' philosophy.

The taunting didn't work for me because he's more the Emperor in that scenario. He's the one who had the power and he's the one who failed Kylo Ren. I think I view the movie(s) primarily about the tragedy of Kylo Ren - in large part because Luke fucked up - so that's why that scene missed for me.

And Luke's death didn't work for so many reasons, not the least being it was blink or you'll miss it. I think it took me a couple of second after he disappeared to go "Oh, shit, I think he's dead or turned into a bat or whatever."
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#9
I have the same reading of the Luke character. He understood the importance of hope and goodness, but he was not optimistic or idealistic in the way I think Hammil saw him/sees him or that the Action Figure Luke crowd does. He saw the benefits of the light to the dark, but he wasn't a rey of sunshine who had a positive outlook about everything. He was measured in his "goodness," similar to Yoda, similar to Obi-Wan. I wouldn't consider Obi-Wan as some beacon of light, but he saw the value of goodness over evil. An appreciation of the interconnectedness of the universe, rather than trying to corrupt it in a Sith way. That's how I always read the 'Jedi' philosophy.

The taunting didn't work for me because he's more the Emperor in that scenario. He's the one who had the power and he's the one who failed Kylo Ren. I think I view the movie(s) primarily about the tragedy of Kylo Ren - in large part because Luke fucked up - so that's why that scene missed for me.

And Luke's death didn't work for so many reasons, not the least being it was blink or you'll miss it. I think it took me a couple of second after he disappeared to go "Oh, shit, I think he's dead or turned into a bat or whatever."
I think they needed to give Kylo a little bit more to say and do in that scene. As you said, this movie was about his continued fall to the dark side in spite of first Luke and then Rey's best efforts. Obi Wan's taunting of Vader and Luke's taunting of the Emperor worked because there was a back and forth taunting throughout both fights. Kylo just stood there raging like a spoiled child. I understand that's his character but it would have been nice if he'd really read off a list of Luke's failings.

I also think the scene would have benefited from being longer because then Rey would have had time to struggle moving the rocks. It's amazing to me that after reading so many fan comments, complaints and theories about Rey being over-powered they still had her so far ahead of Luke's Empire Strikes Back progress. But again, I have my own explanation for this and I'll continue to hold to that until Episode 9 comes out.
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#10
But again, I have my own explanation for this and I'll continue to hold to that until Episode 9 comes out.
SJW Agendaing?

My current explanation is lazy, lazy writing. Nothing political, nothing nefarious, just "get to space shoot."
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#11
SJW Agendaing?

My current explanation is lazy, lazy writing. Nothing political, nothing nefarious, just "get to space shoot."
Keri Russell has been cast in Episode 9.

She's not British, so I guess that's progress. I saw a rumor a while back that they were looking for someone to play "Mara."
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#12
Keri Russell has been cast in Episode 9.

She's not British, so I guess that's progress. I saw a rumor a while back that they were looking for someone to play "Mara."
Another girwel?!?!? Star Wars is fucking dead to me! I am boycotting until a straight white male is cast as a straight white male character.

You know both Abrams and Russell made their bones on Felicity.

Can you see Felicity as Rey's mom?
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#13
Keri Russell has been cast in Episode 9.

She's not British, so I guess that's progress. I saw a rumor a while back that they were looking for someone to play "Mara."
By the way, I don't think they're going to bring in Mara Jade. I think that would upset the EU fans even more. Same with Thrawn. Either they'll be pissed when it's announced because it's not #RealMara or they'll be really excited because they get that reference then even more pissed after the movie because it's not #RealMara.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#14
By the way, I don't think they're going to bring in Mara Jade. I think that would upset the EU fans even more. Same with Thrawn. Either they'll be pissed when it's announced because it's not #RealMara or they'll be really excited because they get that reference then even more pissed after the movie because it's not #RealMara.
Do you think all would be forgiven with most Star Wars fans if she was Mara Jade and Rey was her daughter with Luke? I think so.

I'm not saying that's what I want to happen or I think will happen. Just that this might be the kind of desperation Hail Mara that Disney might be considering.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#15
Also, for science:

FMK Daisy Ridley, Keri Russell, Felicity Jones

I think I'm marrying Russell, Fucking Jones, and Killing Daisy Ridley, which breaks my heart but...
 

LiddyRules

RIP King of France. Gutted Like Fish Under R Line
#16
Do you think all would be forgiven with most Star Wars fans if she was Mara Jade and Rey was her daughter with Luke? I think so.

I'm not saying that's what I want to happen or I think will happen. Just that this might be the kind of desperation Hail Mara that Disney might be considering.
I don't. I think people would be like, "why was he such a dick to her." And Hammil would be like "I would have played it completely differently had I known."

Also, for science:

FMK Daisy Ridley, Keri Russell, Felicity Jones

I think I'm marrying Russell, Fucking Jones, and Killing Daisy Ridley, which breaks my heart but...
I can go with that, but Ridley definitely dies. She dies like 9 times out of 10 for me. The only time I can think she doesn't is FMK TLJ.
 

Stormrider666

Hell is home.
Donator
#17
Do you think all would be forgiven with most Star Wars fans if she was Mara Jade and Rey was her daughter with Luke? I think so.

I'm not saying that's what I want to happen or I think will happen. Just that this might be the kind of desperation Hail Mara that Disney might be considering.
I think it would. Its also one of two scenarios that help explain why Rey seems to be so far ahead of Luke's progress in Empire Strikes Back.


Also, for science:

FMK Daisy Ridley, Keri Russell, Felicity Jones

I think I'm marrying Russell, Fucking Jones, and Killing Daisy Ridley, which breaks my heart but...
F- Daisy Ridley (I gained a new appreciation for her after re-watching MOTOE.)
M- Keri Russell
K- Felicity Jones
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
#18
Ok let's bump this thing! @SOS we have an official start time: 8:00pm EST! The Last Jedi is a long movie and we want to make sure we have enough time for a second feature.

Speaking of, per @LiddyRules ' suggestion we will hold Geostorm for another night and pick an Amazon Prime Wheel of Doom movie for our second feature.

I've got a few contenders lined up. A pair of James Ryan classics:
Kill and Kill Again!
Rage to Kill!

Blood Money, starring Robert Z'Dar
Hitman's Run, starring Eric Roberts

The trailers are filled to the brim with REL's, so I encourage you not to watch them so as not to spoil the fun.

@Bill Lehecka will be joining me LIVE, along with The Teacher and a few of my real life friends. If anyone else wants to make the journey, you're more than welcome. I'll be serving Blue Milk!
 
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