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White House Pleads With TX To Stay Execution of Mexican National

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Neon, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. Neon

    Neon ネオン
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    Link.

    Now, I can sorta understand the reasoning behind the legislation, but this man MOVED TO THE U.S. AS A TODDLER. He wasn't like a tourist or a fence jumper who could genuinely benefit from consular advice, he lived in the US all his life, but happened to be Mexican.
     
  2. CousinDave

    CousinDave Registered User

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    Like the savages will treat Americans better if this guy isn't executed
     
  3. weeniewawa

    weeniewawa it's a man, baby!!!

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    plug him in

    light him up
     
  4. Party Rooster

    Party Rooster Unleash The Beast

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    I kinda agree. I think I've turned the corner on the death penalty in the U.S. It takes too long and costs too much and it's really not a deterrent at this point. Leave it on the table if an inmate opts for it, like McVeigh and people like that guy in Utah recently. Supposedly that's one of the things that got Casey Anthony off.

    Don't be surprised if the Repubs don't try and Willie Horton Obama over this though...
     
  5. Falldog

    Falldog Wackbag's Best Conservative
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    I think the execution should continue under the "You Snooze, You Loose" policy.
     
  6. stevethrower

    stevethrower Got Sig?

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    Kill him... and send his corpse back to Mexico... yeesh...
     
  7. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    What's awesome is that I've driven past the Hunstville prison twice in the last two days... Not a single protester to be seen anywhere.
     
  8. CousinDave

    CousinDave Registered User

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    Why I'm as pro executions as I am pro drug legalization and pro pregnancy terminations, the death penalty as instituted is not a deterrent and should only be used as a form of retribution.

    This is a case where the death penalty is justifiable.

    I can't see why Little Barry is getting involved in this one, its a fight he can not win, especially against a potential opponent for the election next year.

    If the Supreme Court gets involved, I can guarantee you, Perry will make it a central issue in his campaign for POTUS - Little Barry and the SCOTUS don't believe foreigners who commit crimes in this country should face the same consequences as an American would for the same crime.

    Oh and Willie Horton was a legitimate issue (first brought up by Al Gore in the '88 Democrat Primary) Dukakis just responded to it all wrong, his response should have been, hey the federal gov't under Reagan and Bush let violent inmates out on furloughs all the time too.
     
  9. Falldog

    Falldog Wackbag's Best Conservative
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    Pressure from diplomatic sources.
     
  10. BIV

    BIV I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.

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    Not to mention a large block of his voting base.
     
  11. CousinDave

    CousinDave Registered User

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    If the Mexican gov't is really concerned about their nationals in this country how about they pay for the cost of educating, incarceration, medical, etc... expenses
     
  12. JonBenetRamsey

    JonBenetRamsey well shit the bed

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    i bet sarah palin wouldn't have wasted her time on this shit.
     
  13. Norm Stansfield

    Norm Stansfield 私は亀が好きだ。

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    The Supreme Court is involved. It has ruled that failure to inform someone of their right to contact their consulate is not grounds for a retrial, several years ago. It has also ruled that the international courts demanding a stay of execution have no jurisdiction over this matter. All this has been settled a long time ago, and the only thing that would be different after a stay would be that the guy would breath another six months.

    That said, cops really should start informing foreigners of their rights and notifying consulates when they arrest their nationals. That treaty is legally binding, and it would be nice if we could stick to the shit we agree to.
     
  14. JonBenetRamsey

    JonBenetRamsey well shit the bed

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    aaaaaaaaand he's gone
     
  15. mascan42

    mascan42 Registered User

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    While that's true, so is this:
    You can't stay the execution based on potential future legislation that might affect the case if it passes. Even if it does pass, you can't apply it retroactively, due to the prohibition on ex post facto legislation.
     
  16. Josh_R

    Josh_R Registered User

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    The Penn and Teller Bullshit episode about the death penalty said it best: If the point of putting someone to death is to ensure that they never harm anyone else in society again, how is it not good enough to keep them in maximum security for the rest of their lives? The death penalty is really about making the rest of society feel better that the bad man is dead. It has no deterrent effect, it is purely a vehicle for vengeance. I think it should only be used where there is 100% undeniable proof that the person committed the act (Nidal Hassan or Jared Laughner who were taken down while shooting people, for example), otherwise throw them in a fucking hole for eternity for all I care.

    I am sure that this is going to be great fodder for campaigns, though. "President Obama wants Mexicans who r@pe little girls with sticks and bash their brains in to live on the taxpayer dime..."
     
  17. CousinDave

    CousinDave Registered User

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    I meant staying the execution until after a hearing.

    They didn't, therefore the SCOTUS did not get involved
     
  18. Ballbuster1

    Ballbuster1 In The Danger Zone...
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    That goes without saying. The rest of the world hates us and this would just be
    an excuse for their normal behavior. Too bad people blindly believe that nonsense.
     
  19. THRILLHO

    THRILLHO Registered User

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    Light up the beaner like a christmas tree.
     
  20. Norm Stansfield

    Norm Stansfield 私は亀が好きだ。

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    No, it's a vehicle for justice. This same exact thing came up in another thread, and back then I just posted that it's not vengeance, it's justice. I didn't explain exactly what justice is, but I'll try to do that now:

    Justice, just like logic but on a more abstract level, is a principle that binds humans to reality, allowing us to understand our world and prosper in it both as individuals and as a society. One way to state the basic principle justice is derived from would be this: in any system that exists in reality, including human societies, every action has an equal reaction. If we apply this to human society specifically, the statement becomes: In the long run, there is always balance between crime and punishment. Every crime will eventually result in an equal reaction against the person committing the crime or the people appeasing, protecting or encouraging him. That's the principle of justice. (Everyone should read the book "Crime and Punishment", if you haven't, by the way. It goes a long way in illustrating how this principle tends to manifest itself, and it's one of the greatest novels ever written.)

    In the real world, people who understand and live by the laws of reality can prosper. Such people recognize the basic need for balance between crime and punishment for instance (and the many other aspects of reality not relevant to this thread). A society which deliberately chooses to punish great crimes with lesser punishments is consciously defying justice, and by doing that it is defying reality itself. That doesn't mean, however, that this second type of society somehow managed to alter reality and make justice disappear. You can fight reality, logic and justice, but you can't win. Instead, the society which is ignoring reality is going to absorb the unavoidable reaction to the crime itself. And deservedly so.

    P.S. By deservedly, I simply mean that it is in accordance with a principle that exists independent of my feelings: justice - not that it makes me happy or sad. Justice is the polar opposite of vengeance: it relates to reality and only reality, while vengeance relates to our feelings and only our feelings. The death penalty is just because it restores balance, not because it makes us feel good. That's why the death penalty for pedophiles isn't just, for instance, but for cold blooded murderers it is.

    I would argue that your brand of clemency (or forgiveness, or being humane, if that's what you wanna call it), is a lot like vengeance, because it reflects your feelings instead of a rational evaluation of reality.
     
  21. stevethrower

    stevethrower Got Sig?

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    Yep...

    Link/More
     
  22. Creasy Bear

    Creasy Bear gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh
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    They should've strapped the animal to a Patriot missile and deported him back to Mexico at Mach 5.

    They could still do it with his corpse, but that won't be nearly as much fun.
     
  23. Party Rooster

    Party Rooster Unleash The Beast

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    For the vast majority of people, I would think they fall under the vengeance reasoning behind being in favor of the death penalty. And you're still arguing it based on what you perceive as "justice." A lot of people think that giving these people a quick painless death and exit from this life is not as "just" as making them rot in a prison cell for the rest of their lives.
     
  24. CousinDave

    CousinDave Registered User

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    That is something that conflicts me as well, problem is that for most inmates prison isn't really that bad - its not really like what you see in the movies and hell, I've seen county jails that are better than any college dorm room and most of the hotels I've stayed in.
     
  25. Voss's Tumor

    Voss's Tumor Banned

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    Huntsville smells like refried beaner.

    What were we talking about in here?
     

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