WWE Thread - August 2015 - Summer Slam

Foggy

all mayo is actually my cum
Donator
#26
I did think it was odd how Seth was wrestling like an underdog and was outperforming Cena, yet the ending was an interference. I was expecting Sheamus to cash in on him after winning cleanly.

If you listen to Jim Ross' podcast, he's always hinting about how they can't book for shit and how heels always do the most impressive things, and thus they're cheered over slugs like Roman Reigns. I mean, Seth may be the most eye-popping wrestler since Rey Mysterio... why should I boo him?

Also, Roman's big push has really hurt him in the long run. It was too premature and there's absolutely nothing impressive about him. Goldberg had not only a better moveset and performed those moves greater, but he was also a better wrestler and even talker. 'Nuff said.
 
#27
[QUOTE="Faggy, post: 5645847, member: 64960"Also, Roman's big push has really hurt him in the long run. It was too premature and there's absolutely nothing impressive about him. Goldberg had not only a better moveset and performed those moves greater, but he was also a better wrestler and even talker. 'Nuff said.[/QUOTE]
They should have known better than to push Roman so hard. It was very obvious that he was their plan and people weren't too fond of it. It's not even that Roman is terrible, you just can't really push someone who isn't getting over on their own. I don't know if the hernia changed what would have happened, but it definitely hurt him to be out for 3 months at that period. In the time he was out, Ziggler and Ambrose were basically in his position. If Roman was healthy, he would have been the sole survivor against the Authority at Survivor Series, he probably would have taken Ambrose's spot at Hell in a Cell against Rollins, or even in the #1 contender slot against Orton and come up just short after some outside Authority shenanigans. I don't hate Reigns, but the fact that they haven't turned him yet has boggled my mind. After he didn't win Money in the Bank, I'm confused about how they are handling him. I know Austin has said he needs a run as a solo heel before he'll be accepted as a top face, and I think he's right. If they don't turn him, I think he's plateaued. If they really want him to win the title, it can't be at Mania. He can win it at TLC, and by the time Mania rolls around, he can enter as the champion and people won't be as upset if his challenger is someone people care about.
I like your Goldberg comparison. It makes sense in more than just the similar moveset. All Goldberg had was the streak. So many people have said that. If the only character point you have is you win a lot, what else is there? Reigns isn't even dominant in his victories though. I feel like they are trying to book him as being tenacious like Ambrose where he can take a beating and still keep fighting, but it doesn't work for me. What they need to do is have him turn on Ambrose. He doesn't need to align with the Wyatt's or the Authority, just have him be a wrecking ball. He can turn at NoC by taking out Ambrose and all of the Wyatts which could lead to a HiaC match against Ambrose where he just destroys him. Have him embrace the boos and hatred from the crowd. People hated Orton and now they love him. Let Reigns be the new Orton.
 

Foggy

all mayo is actually my cum
Donator
#28
I don't know if the hernia changed what would have happened, but it definitely hurt him to be out for 3 months at that period.
Eh... he just can't talk and he can't connect with the fans as a personality. Today's fans aren't going to buy into a favourite just because they're told to, which is why guys with some personality or an interesting gimmick (Ambrose, Wyatt...) are what the fans are hot for until the so-called 50/50 booking fucks them.

It's interesting you compare Reigns to Orton. Remember, it took Orton YEARS to get to be ANY GOOD, and that was well after he won the title. Reigns has only been on TV for about three years, and most of that has been under the protection of The Shield. You gotta be there for years before you're truly accepted, Angle and Rock excepted.
 
#29
Eh... he just can't talk and he can't connect with the fans as a personality. Today's fans aren't going to buy into a favourite just because they're told to, which is why guys with some personality or an interesting gimmick (Ambrose, Wyatt...) are what the fans are hot for until the so-called 50/50 booking fucks them.

It's interesting you compare Reigns to Orton. Remember, it took Orton YEARS to get to be ANY GOOD, and that was well after he won the title. Reigns has only been on TV for about three years, and most of that has been under the protection of The Shield. You gotta be there for years before you're truly accepted, Angle and Rock excepted.
I don't think it's necessarily a time thing because Rollins and Ambrose have only been there the same amount of time. I know Rollins was in NXT, I don't know of Ambrose was, but they had the Indies where they honed their craft. Reigns didn't. The big hurdle they have with Reigns is having him be his own guy and not just The Rock for the new generation. Because even though they have similar backgrounds, The Rock was trained by Stu Hart.
 

Foggy

all mayo is actually my cum
Donator
#30
I don't think it's necessarily a time thing because Rollins and Ambrose have only been there the same amount of time. I know Rollins was in NXT, I don't know of Ambrose was, but they had the Indies where they honed their craft. Reigns didn't. The big hurdle they have with Reigns is having him be his own guy and not just The Rock for the new generation. Because even though they have similar backgrounds, The Rock was trained by Stu Hart.
Rollins was supposedly great in the indies and ROH (I never saw him before WWE, personally) and Ambrose was already cutting great promos in the indies, so they had the lead on Reigns by a mile. CM Punk suggested that The Shield was merely a springboard for Reigns, "their guy", even though it seems Triple H has taken a liking to Rollins for real... but Reigns is still the one positioned for stardom.

I actually didn't know The Rock was trained by Stu, though! That's a revelation for me.
 

pnigga

hold my hand, dane
#31
Eh... he just can't talk and he can't connect with the fans as a personality. Today's fans aren't going to buy into a favourite just because they're told to, which is why guys with some personality or an interesting gimmick (Ambrose, Wyatt...) are what the fans are hot for until the so-called 50/50 booking fucks them.

It's interesting you compare Reigns to Orton. Remember, it took Orton YEARS to get to be ANY GOOD, and that was well after he won the title. Reigns has only been on TV for about three years, and most of that has been under the protection of The Shield. You gotta be there for years before you're truly accepted, Angle and Rock excepted.
great post. I'm not entirely sure I agree with what you said about the fans not buying into the guy(s) the WWE wants to go over, though. I think it's a combination of crowd support, booking, and timing. Rollins and Ambrose were arguably no more over than Reigns when The Shield was being shoved down everyone's throats for 2 years. if anything, I could probably make an argument that Reigns was the most over of the three while in The Shield, or at least certainly close to it. The WWE obviously wanted him to be the top dog so the endless pushing and pushing was designed to make him look better while protected by two other guys. where the WWE fucked up was prematurely attempting to push him to the top guy in the company at Royal Rumble 2015. the fans who can be incredibly stupid in embracing horseshit gimmicks like The Shield in the first place can be smart enough to sniff out when the company jumps the gun, and in the case of Reigns, he wasn't yet ready to be The Rock 2.0. The crowd turned on him in the blink of an eye and I don't think he'll recover from that while remaining a face.

The WWE doesn't really treat its fans as intelligent people, so when they try to pull something like they did with Reigns at the Royal Rumble the fans all of a sudden have an opening to rebel at all the horseshit they tolerate while shelling out their money. Had they kept Reigns as a face and him in a program that would have eventually culminated with the IC title this year and maybe began a heavyweight title run sometime in 2016, they would have stood a much better chance than they did. As it stands now, all they did turn the crowd against the guy the company hoped would be top dog in April 2015, and in so doing exposed all of his limitations; consider how completely ridiculous Reigns looked going through all of his crowd-playing gimmicks while being booed mercilessly at Summerslam. Also, let's not give the WWE any credit for being that intelligent an entity, either. They bombard their audience with so much shit that inevitably something is going to stick right? But how short-sighted are they? Did they forget how brutal the response was to Batista being gifted a title match one year earlier after being gone for 3 years, shows up a month prior to the Rumble, comes into the Rumble 28th and wins the match in under 15 minutes? They had to rather clumsily rebook Wrestlemania because of it. But again, the WWE thinks its fans aren't that smart and figures, well, we had Reign eliminate a whole bunch of guys in RR 2014, we've pushed the fuck out of his silly faction for 2 years, and Royal Rumble 2014 was a whole year ago so everything will work out fine. Obviously it didn't, and as should have been obvious to everyone employed by the WWE, it wouldn't, but they did it anyway and now Roman Reigns is a running joke. And it's exactly what they deserved for booking like their audience is populated by goldfish. All the piped-in cheers in the world aren't going to save Roman Reigns the Face so it's a matter of time before they finally admit that and have him turn or just run him out of the company.

one thing I will say in Reigns' defense, although he can't talk worth a shit, I don't think he's as bad a performer as some would like him to be. I certainly consider him no worse than Ambrose whose "crazy" persona is the lamest shit imaginable - and I fucking hate anyone with no-sell gimmicks - but they didn't try to make him the champion prematurely, either. Rollins, who is definitely a better performer than the other two, can't really talk either and is a small guy wearing lifts, but he's able to get away with a lot of shit because he's a heel and a protected one since he had all The Authority gimmicks covering his ass for months and months. I said earlier how the Rollins booking doesn't make any sense and him holding two belts would make zero sense if he were a face, but as a heel, the crowd can boo him (or cheer him when fights Cena) but not loathe the company for it. the booking of Reigns set him up to fail.
 
Last edited:
#32
I actually didn't know The Rock was trained by Stu, though! That's a revelation for me.
I can't find it online, but I remember reading that somewhere a long time ago. I may be wrong.

Going back to Rollins' character, it's starting to make sense to me. He got the MitB briefcase and he was cocky because it's almost a guaranteed title and he knew it. Once he won the title, he didn't want to lose it and that's why he was such a chicken shit. Now, he's had it for 6 months and in that 6 months, he's kept the title through matches with Orton, Cena, Ambrose, Reigns, and Lesnar, so he's starting to get cocky again. I don't remember if anyone brought up him not backing down from a match with Sting, but he was amped up from what had just happened and we'll see where it goes in the next few weeks.

I just got done watching NXT and I think that the fatal 4 way women's match was either incredibly botched, horribly booked, or both. Are Emma and Dana at odds now or are they relatively okay? The turn that kind of happened didn't really seem to matter in the long run. Emma went for the pin which Dana didn't care for, they made up after a brief tussle, then Dana gave Emma an enziguri that led to nothing. Then Emma gets the win which nobody seemed to expect, even Emma. Then Charlotte, who is a face, goes into what I assume the finish was supposed to be where she hits Natural Selection and pins Emma, then Dana comes in and attacks Charlotte and they all fight for a minute. When Charlotte and Becky were walking up the ramp, they both seemed upset, especially Becky, while saying "PCB." It really makes no sense if that's how the match was supposed to go down. If it was a botch, that doesn't look good for the girls because that's the second botched finish in as many weeks. It's one thing to botch a move, but the finish of the match? The only other one I can think of is that Stardust/Goldust match from Fastlane ended odd, but no one really knows if it was a botch or not.
 

Foggy

all mayo is actually my cum
Donator
#33
Rollins and Ambrose were arguably no more over than Reigns when The Shield was being shoved down everyone's throats for 2 years. if anything, I could probably make an argument that Reigns was the most over of the three while in The Shield, or at least certainly close to it. The WWE obviously wanted him to be the top dog so the endless pushing and pushing was designed to make him look better while protected by two other guys. where the WWE fucked up was prematurely attempting to push him to the top guy in the company at Royal Rumble 2015. the fans who can be incredibly stupid in embracing horseshit gimmicks like The Shield in the first place can be smart enough to sniff out when the company jumps the gun, and in the case of Reigns, he wasn't yet ready to be The Rock 2.0. The crowd turned on him in the blink of an eye and I don't think he'll recover from that while remaining a face.
I think the dynamic of The Shield was more popular than a sum of its parts, and WWE misread that by thinking that because Reigns appeared more over than the others, he was The Guy. No; when The Shield went face-to-face with The Wyatts and then with Evolution, it was great because gang warfare is great and is sorely missed in wrestling. They thought that because Reigns looked like the beast of the group that he would be a beast on his own... but his shitty power moves and spear don't look all that great when his buddies aren't around to fill in the talking and wrestling gaps.

They broke up the group, and they should have tested the waters by having Reigns just be a killer, but instead he just became another babyface.

Also, I made the comparison between him and Goldberg... well, how is Reigns any better than him? I'm not sure he's a better wrestler or talker, his power moves aren't nearly as cool, he's not as big and he's not built like a god like Goldberg was. He's just not an impressive specimen, although he's supposedly good looking but that can only take you so far. I think Kevin Nash is correct in that if you're going to push a guy based on his physicality, then they have to be monsters. Reigns is like, an inch taller than me and he doesn't have the body of a Triple H or Orton... so what's the big deal about him? I understand why they pushed guys like Khali and Ryback, but then they found out that they absolutely can't cut it in the ring and it fucked plans up.

one thing I will say in Reigns' defense, although he can't talk worth a shit, I don't think he's as bad a performer as some would like him to be. I certainly consider him no worse than Ambrose whose "crazy" persona is the lamest shit imaginable - and I fucking hate anyone with no-sell gimmicks - but they didn't try to make him the champion prematurely, either. Rollins, who is definitely a better performer than the other two, can't really talk either and is a small guy wearing lifts, but he's able to get away with a lot of shit because he's a heel and a protected one since he had all The Authority gimmicks covering his ass for months and months. I said earlier how the Rollins booking doesn't make any sense and him holding two belts would make zero sense if he were a face, but as a heel, the crowd can boo him (or cheer him when fights Cena) but not loathe the company for it. the booking of Reigns set him up to fail.
Definitely agree with you here: Reigns isn't terrible by any means and he still has the potential, and ultimately it's the WWE that failed him and not the other way around.

I'll defend Ambrose, though, because he COULD be a weird combination of Roddy Piper, Cactus Jack and Brian Pillman, but because they're family friendly they tone it down and then the gimmick doesn't make sense. A guy like that is supposed to cut promos about how he wants to disfigure his opponent, and he should be in matches where he bleeds buckets. They want him to be a guy like that, but because it's PG they half-ass it and then there's no point.

Rollins has it good though, and I'm happy for his push... if he gets a solid run as a babyface, he'll be over like crazy because he does some of the best spots in wrestling I've seen. That's all you need nowadays.
 
#34
Am I the only one who is more excited about the Dudley Boyz than Sting? I like Sting and all, but the prospect of his match with Rollins bums me out. Either he wins and he'll be a champ like Lesnar and almost never be there on top of essentially burying a younger talent, or he loses and he'll lose any sort of awe that surrounds him.
 

pnigga

hold my hand, dane
#37
Am I the only one who is more excited about the Dudley Boyz than Sting? I like Sting and all, but the prospect of his match with Rollins bums me out. Either he wins and he'll be a champ like Lesnar and almost never be there on top of essentially burying a younger talent, or he loses and he'll lose any sort of awe that surrounds him.
I love the Dudleys but I marked out pretty hard for Sting at the end of Raw. Basically seeing anyone close a Raw that isn't Triple H, Stephanie or Rollins is going to get me excited, but I was glad to see Sting under that stupid curtain (and also to see him look good in handling Rollins). Can't see him wining the title, though. My guess is that whatever happens sets up a feud between him and some other old guy, possibly Triple H again as his level of indignation in the interview after Raw could have been to set up his involvement in the match. The rumor for the longest time was that Sting and The Undertaker would be in Wrestlemania 32 but now it's looking more like Brock and The Undertaker will fight for a third time a WM32 instead so what other fossil can do a program with Sting? (And that presumes that Sting does anything more than wrestle one random match and then disappear for another 7 months.) I just can't see a 56-year old Sting winning the title over Rollins after the way they booked the Rollins-Cena match at Summerslam. Let's also not forget that Cena is going to have to be involved somehow as he was screwed out of his title and taken away in handcuffs on Monday night.

The biggest problem with the title right now is one word: Sheamus. Giving that lump of shit the MITB briefcase was the most incomprehensible WWE has made in a long time and now there's the fear that anytime a title match occurs, the Celtic Warrior with a mohawk (???) is going to show up and set the company back a decade. I don't know if it's McMahon's obsession with Irish gimmicks or if Sheamus' name was pulled out of a hat, but there's no reason that guy should be any title picture.

And speaking of the Dudleys and albatrosses, JBL is the worst fucking announcer in the history of the company. Yes, that includes Mike Adamle. JBL makes me cringe roughly 9 out of every 10 times he opens his mouth, and his feigned enthusiastic read of "Devon, get the table" made me sick. Yes, table, singular. The combination of Cole, JBL and Byron Saxton makes me long for the days of Sean Mooney.
 
Last edited:

Foggy

all mayo is actually my cum
Donator
#38
And speaking of the Dudleys and albatrosses, JBL is the worst fucking announcer in the history of the company. Yes, that includes Mike Adamle. JBL makes me cringe roughly 9 out of every 10 times he opens his mouth, and his feigned enthusiastic read of "Devon, get the table" made me sick. Yes, table, singular. The combination of Cole, JBL and Byron Saxton makes me long for the days of Sean Mooney.
I think Vince is feeding them directions through their earpieces. Even Michael Cole and Lawler aren't performing up to their potential.
 

pnigga

hold my hand, dane
#39
I think the dynamic of The Shield was more popular than a sum of its parts, and WWE misread that by thinking that because Reigns appeared more over than the others, he was The Guy. No; when The Shield went face-to-face with The Wyatts and then with Evolution, it was great because gang warfare is great and is sorely missed in wrestling. They thought that because Reigns looked like the beast of the group that he would be a beast on his own... but his shitty power moves and spear don't look all that great when his buddies aren't around to fill in the talking and wrestling gaps.

They broke up the group, and they should have tested the waters by having Reigns just be a killer, but instead he just became another babyface.
You're right but make no mistake, the decision to jump him ahead of Daniel Bryan was the reason he went over like a led zeppelin. As I said in my previous post, the company went through exactly the same backlash a year prior when they decided to shoehorn Batista into a title match, and to gift Reigns the WM main event was a case of sticking it up the WWE universe's ass in exactly the same way 2 years in a row. But yeah, The Shield as a faction was built by a shit-ton of hype and they hoped desperately that all the pushing of Reigns as the pretty boy monster of the group would convince the audience that he was a better choice for champion than Daniel Bryan. The problem was that Reigns, and The Shield for that matter, were never over like Bryan and the universe decided that both they and their guy got screwed in order for the company man to be gifted a spot he didn't earn. I'm sure the fans saw the writing on the wall in the the weeks leading up to the Rumble but they still had to see their guy get fucked to believe it. Then Bryan gets tossed pretty early in the Rumble, Kane and the Big Show started eliminating everybody, and it was like, "Oh, they really are going to gift this to their Samoan Golden Boy." I applaud the crowd for refusing to fall for Vince's horseshit that night, and that they've not bought into the mythology of Roman Reigns since is why I don't think the guy will ever get over without a heel turn first.

Also, I made the comparison between him and Goldberg... well, how is Reigns any better than him? I'm not sure he's a better wrestler or talker, his power moves aren't nearly as cool, he's not as big and he's not built like a god like Goldberg was. He's just not an impressive specimen, although he's supposedly good looking but that can only take you so far. I think Kevin Nash is correct in that if you're going to push a guy based on his physicality, then they have to be monsters. Reigns is like, an inch taller than me and he doesn't have the body of a Triple H or Orton... so what's the big deal about him? I understand why they pushed guys like Khali and Ryback, but then they found out that they absolutely can't cut it in the ring and it fucked plans up.
Goldberg was a much more dynamic performer. I wasn't a fan but the guy came in and hit like a Mack truck. Reigns came in and we had to hear Michael Cole tell us he was hitting like a Mack truck (while being protected by two other guys). As for the appeal, well, he's got an ambiguous ethnic look to him and I think he's just not-white enough for Vince to be happy seeing him as the top guy. Reigns is a good looking dude and he's tall and athletic, but Vince and whomever else was responsible for the ill-advised push were looking at him and seeing Rock 2.0. It remains to be seen whether the crowd would have seen that a year or two down the line but nobody is seeing that now.
 

Foggy

all mayo is actually my cum
Donator
#40
You're right but make no mistake, the decision to jump him ahead of Daniel Bryan was the reason he went over like a led zeppelin.
That was the nail in the coffin all right. I still don't get why they didn't have Bryan - the most popular guy in the company - headline WM again against Brock because not only would it have made for a better match, possibly five stars, but there's more interest in that and you can still have Rollins cash in the MITB. Reigns would have made for a logical choice of winning the IC Title in the ladder match to set him up for a nice long reign (pardon the pun).

Then Bryan gets tossed pretty early in the Rumble, Kane and the Big Show started eliminating everybody, and it was like, "Oh, they really are going to gift this to their Samoan Golden Boy." I applaud the crowd for refusing to fall for Vince's horseshit that night, and that they've not bought into the mythology of Roman Reigns since is why I don't think the guy will ever get over without a heel turn first.
That could've been the worst Rumble ever. Even 1999 was better than that shit.


Also by the way, how bad are things when seeing the Dudley Boyz in 2015 is a good sign? I got nothing against them, but that act got stale 13 years ago.
 

pnigga

hold my hand, dane
#41
That was the nail in the coffin all right. I still don't get why they didn't have Bryan - the most popular guy in the company - headline WM again against Brock because not only would it have made for a better match, possibly five stars, but there's more interest in that and you can still have Rollins cash in the MITB.
Look, we don't know what they knew about the extent of injuries and how that influenced their decision to keep him away from a match with Lesnar, but I genuinely believe they had no desire to ever see him as champion. For as over as he was, they refused to believe it. They jumped Batista over him a year prior and the whole thing blew up in the face so badly that they had to work him into WM in a silly three-way match, and also booked an even sillier match between Triple H and Bryan to show that he'd kayfabe earned his way into the title match. Just moronic booking. And recall his previous title run started due to a bullshit finish (having a face win via a fast count?) and ended one day later when Triple H stripped him of the title setting up Cena getting the title for the 700th time. They just never wanted the guy to be the star.
 
#42
The problem isn't that Bryan didn't win the rumble, the problem is either that he was in it at all or the way he was eliminated. I don't know if Reigns won the Rumble without Bryan being in it would have been smooth sailing, but it would have definitely not been nearly as bad. Having him announce it the way he did and when he did gave people too much hope. I fully understand not wanting to put Bryan against Lesnar since Lesnar's big move has become a German suples which would have Bryan taking a lot of damage to what was just injured. Bryan shouldn't have returned until FastLane, maybe even switch the role Orton had especially since Orton was at the Rumble and in his gear. The way he was eilminated as just another guy by Bray, and even in such a weird fluky way where he was bumped off the apron and not have his elimination mean anything was probably the biggest misstep in a Rumble that featured him. The problem with the Rumble was that everyone knew it was going to be Roman a year out and they did nothing to make people think anyone else could win until Bryan came back. Then he had to earn his spot against Kane. It was almost just like the year before where there were hurdles he had to overcome to the main event. And then it was over with no foresight. Honestly, as much as I like Ambrose and Ziggler, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that they weren't going to win this year. The way they had had Kane and Big Show just throwing people out was nice the first time, they didn't need to do it 5 times to all of the somewhat over people that remained. When they have it down to Kane, Show, Reigns (and Rusev), who could possibly win? No one wants to see Kane or Big Show in the main event and they wouldn't want to end Wrestlemania with Rusev hoisting the title since they didn't think they'd re-sign Lesnar who was still a heel at the time.
 

Lord Zero

Registered User
#43
I just found this on Google Images. Posted just because.

 
Top